Mickrick Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Anyone know anything about this here Where does it fit? How does it support the diff? I know I could ask MOG, but I'm not about to buy one. Not right now. Cheers, Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Normuss Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Looks like it might work in the same was at the new R500, running vertically upwards to (I think) the crossmember that runs behind your shoulder 🤔 VX HPC - Loud and proud here Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Normuss Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Forgot to add, think to reduce rotation of the diff/mound assembly. VX HPC - Loud and proud here Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frying Pan Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 €399 for that See some pictures of the build here. 15000 miles completed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 €399 for that Fair enough If they're made from gold plated titanium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 But Why would they need to be rose jointed? And they look a bit too long for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Mick, Suppose it's just to make them adjustable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 But a CC diff strut is £35, and looks a lot shorter. They look more like a radius arm to me. I wonder if they mount different to the CC ones, hence longer. The suspence is killing me, I may have to ask the horse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Don't forget the 19% TVA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I do not understand what all the concerne is about regarding the diff mounts. I have never had any problems and run cars with 280bhp/210lbs torque. My understanding of the problem is that on the C400 race cars they use a race chassis which is dervived from an early De Dion chassis which was a live axle chassis with diff mouts welded on. These chassis have been used in the race series to provide class uniformatey and provide a deformable transmission tunnel to reduce serious injury should a crash occur. This race chassis is known to be weaker around the diff mounts than the later high tunnel /handbrake in the tunnel chassis and hence the extra diff supports. So should the rest of us worry if we have the later type chassis , I think not. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Rob That's not good news for me with a 2001.5 R400 race chassis ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I'd agree with Rob, anyone with a later chassis or the early chassis with Arch's "VX Turbo" diff carrier fix really shouldn't be worrying. I've been sprinting with a 1992 dedion chassis on soft sticky tyres for several years with a Duratec and never had any problems. Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 That's reassuring to hear Why are the new R500's braced at the rear of the diff though? Is this an improvement or do they need it due to the way they're now constructed slightly differently by a different supplier Adding extra bracing could never be a bad thing I s'pose, just wondered why the R500 had it (maybe all new Caterhams do..) Darren E K80RUM Website and Emerald maps library Duratec/SuperlightR hybrid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Having seen the extra bracing on the R500 diff carrier even if you ignore the extra struts it looks pretty strong, the only reason I can think of is that running a sequential box puts more strain the usual on the entire drive train therefore I guess having the extra brackets is a worthwhile precaution. From what I've heard most if not all of the new R500's have been sold with the sequential box fitted. Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Having broken my (1990) upper diff mounts and had them strengthened (twice) I regularly inspect for cracks. The upper reinforced mounts (including a "spiders web" in the seat back panel above them) have proved strong since July 02 but I discovered last night that both the lower chassis mount have cracked (the tube has fractured at the lower joint with the bush). Added to my blown head gasket this will keep me busy for a while .... Frankly, given the use my car has I'm suprised that it hasn't happened sooner ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 😳 clearly I'm not trying hard enough 😬 Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Westermann Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Hi Guys, I am now in the happy situation that I have Rykie, my secretary from South Africa. (Remember Oct 20th 2007 Paris Stade de France…) 😬 She´s quite amused about these very intelligent answers. 🥰 At first the most of you knows that we designed very clever products for the Caterham because of our very long experience with high powered Caterhams. This experience cannot be taken away from me. All Caterhams with strong engines, especially when using Slicks or sequential gearboxes, have problems with broken diff mounts. Because of this problem we designed a support bracket kit long before Caterham did that. Our solution allows the support of the diff at the top wishbone mounting without any chassis modification. (Drilling holes, brazing thread inserts) I uploaded new pictures today but unfortunately in a bad quality. We are speaking about the newer Arch Chassis Version where the top shock bolt is bolted facing backwards. (R500 is metric, but the C400 + CSR racecars(ARCH) also have support brackets) The last picture shows the fitment of older chassis when the top shock bolt is bolted facing forwards. This version is not described in the shop because these chassis are more rare with strong engines and slicks. So the kit includes longer and harder top shock bolts which allow the fitment of the rose joints. We know that the struts needed are not always exactly the same length, depending on the chassis. The rose joints are right as well as left threaded to allow a pre-tension of the diff to deflect the forces, preventing the chassis to brake. The rose joints are the best motorsport quality and because of that so expensive. (Also because the low quantities) The struts are coming powder coated and with all necessary bolts. (This text was created by Rykie for all my friendly customers and English speaking friends. Regards Joachim MOG Racing Edited by - Joachim on 28 Oct 2008 13:29:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Westermann Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 So, Rykie is at home. Now me with my poor English: @Rob Walker: All Diff mounts (also handbrake in the middle chasis) will brake without a suppet kit. It is only a question how hard do you use your car. My German customers are racing their Caterham in the Seven Mania races. And these Maniacs knows using a Caterham on the race track. And they use their cars hard. Going full over the curbs etc. @RJ, because exactly customers as you we designed this kit. @rgrigsby The day will coming your diff mounts also will brake. On a place where a reoair is very expensive. (My english is too bad to explain exactly, mybe I do it tomorrow with Rykies help) The force who goes to the mounts is so big that you need a support on the other side of the diff. Believe it or not. Arch is happy about every chassis repair! Ask "ECR" what stupid work it is to repair his chassis again and again. But what is important for all. Every clever mechanic can do an own cheaper solution Our solution very quickly to fit and looks good. It is easy to copy and modify this idea without the right and left threaded rose joints. But we will sell an easy and good solution. Regards Joachim westermann-motorsport.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I see now. .. . bracing against the damper top mount brackets . .. that is a good idea Now I'm no stress-man, but to my untrained eye, that's a better solution than Caterham's as the angles are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Hi Thanks for the photos, Joachim. That brings a lot of clarification and eliminates all the guesswork of the previous posts. (If) additional support is required, it would be to stop the diff nodding under hard acceleration or shock loadings of torque when doing standing starts/sequential box shifts. Now I've seen how they are installed, I'm not sure that the supports are pointing in the best direction to resist the direction of the force in the vertical direction (or direction of deflection of the diff casing) when under drive load. The angle of the supports and the pivoting rose-joint ends are not ideal for taking a load in the vertical direction. The vertical links offered by CC are more efficient, simpler and lighter. Having said that, Joachim's solution may offer some benefits and as he says, does not require chassis bushes to be brazed in. Peter 6SpeedManual *tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 Thanks for the explaination Joachim. I was considering send ing you a mail to find out where they fit, as I wasn't convinced these were a replacement fot the CC ones. Too long! However, I can't find the pictures you mentioned? I will probably be needing some of these, as I'm looking at putting 420hp through it! I shall be starting my build next year. I have a 2007 LHD Arch SV chassis. I'll be needing lots of matching carbon too. Hope we can talk some club discount! 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Westermann Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Hi Peter, The Caterham solution is good and cheap. I study statics 20 years ago because of my main profession and incoming (www.Westermann-holzbau.de) but I cannot say which solution is more efficient. The point where the force goes in the frame is with my solution 100x better. But I am sure CC solution works good enough because it support the diff. No question! And why they do the support bracket? I know the requirement of the most customers. No chassis modification. And for that and only for that is my solution perfect. The strong rose joints with the lock-nut works perfect and we never have problems. And believe me: We have crazy cars in our racing series. (S2000 powered SII,I or. 2.3 Duractecs SIII 2.2 l JPEs for example) Regards Joachim westermann-motorsport.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Simon Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Mick, The new photos are on the page you previously linked at the top of this thread. -Bob 94 HPC VX Evo III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 ... things to have and not to have! For me, it is a no brainer and I expect my mog kit to drop on the door mat later today. I'll try to remember to but then in the car for Sunday, so anyone at the L2B can have a peep - all donationto NtL JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonycaterham Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I am no expert but is this likely to reduce lateral movement as when running on slicks I am told and the wear marks on my 7 bear this out you can have up to 30mm of lateral movement under cornering causing tyres and rims to rub on all sorts of things. Tony L7 EVL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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