K Series Starter Removal

[Martin Plant]

Hi

 

This is my first posting and although probably bad form I'd like to start with a question.

 

As a quick intro I've had my RoadSport VVC for about a month and have enjoyed every minute. The car has been to the Nurburgring twice and has completed 60 or so laps without major incident.

 

I do though have the K series hot starting problem. I've read all the threads here and have tried insulating the motor and cleaning the terminals without success. I'd now like to get the motor off to strip and clean it. Trouble is I can't work out how to get it off. There are two allen bolts that come out fairly easily but there is a nut on a stud that I cannot work out how to get undone. None of my spanners will fit - there just isn't space around it.

 

I don't want to admit defeat on this one - can anyone suggest how to get this nut undone?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Martin

 

 

[stumpyseven]

MArtin,

 

Get an old spanner of the correct size (17mm i think) and cut in half, this will allow you enough access to get at the nut and enable you to undo it.

 

It now becomes a 10 min. job to fit and remove.

 

Stumpy

 

 

[Mick Day]

Take off exhaust header 3 & 4 as it then gives far more room to manoeuvre.

 

Mick

[Peter Carmichael]

If it is a factory car with the short primary exhaust, it is going to be a fiddle to get access by removing the exhaust. Not impossible, but a fiddle.

 

Peterid=teal>

253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red>

[Martin Plant]

Thanks to those that replied - I will give these tips a try.

 

Martin

[markb905]

Martin

I have a vvc which has the same problem, however durring the winter months it was OK!, i have discussed this with caterham midlands in the last couple of weeks, points of intrest maybe

 

1)There is apparently a quick fix which is about 90% effective which involves a minor change to the wiring.

 

2)The other option is replacing the starter motor with the current one i.e. the solenoid is at the bottom at £200+

 

As for heat shielding, when they tried wrapping the motor they felt it was retaining heat and still causing a problem, however it was felt the using it a heat shield on the top of the motor and not wrapping it would be ok. Also they have seen problems with wrapping the primaries to reduce the under bonnet temp, for example damage to the paint work.

 

What might also be of interest is that they felt that it was a combination of heat and vibration that was causing materials in the starter to breakdown. If this is the case then striping the motor as you are thinking of doing my not resolve the problem.

 

At present I am going to try some heat shielding first, then the quick fix before replacing. I would be interested to know how you get on.

 

Mark Bennett

 

[Martin Plant]

Hi

 

The starter motor on mine was changed by the previous owner at Caterham Midlands 15 months ago to the current type. So solenoid on the bottom doesn't fix the problem.

 

I'm puzzled as to how a minor wiring change can fix this - do you know what this involves?

 

I have read elsewhere in these forums that the heat causes the brushes/armature/solenoid to gum up prematurely which is why I am going to try the strip and clean up routine.

 

Martin

[F355GTS]

Martin

 

I have repaired 3 Solenoid on bottom types, but it's too soon to tell whether 'servicing' them will help. All 3 had loose solder joints and gummed up/pitted solenoid pistons, One had a broken wire from brush to connector.

 

All brushes were fine in terms of movement even when hot (see my other thread re use of oven!)

 

There is only a limited amount that can be done to the solenoid as they are a sealed unit other than cleaning the bore/piston and resoldering the terminals

 

I have also repaired one of the other 'solenoid on top items' which suffered the same solder joint failure, a broken wire inside the solenoid and gummed up piston this is now in peter Duce's car being tested

 

I believe the solder joints fail because of vibration rather than heat,

 

It's difficult to see what the heat is doing, possibly it's reducing the effect of the coils in the motor or it may be as simple as the cable getting too hot and creating too much resistance. I will be testing this later next week at Brands if I can find one that isn't working.

 

My car is fitted with a simple heatshield and todate hasn't suffered from non-starting (solenoid on bottom) other than when the solder joint failed through vibration

 

Mark

[markb905]

Martin / Mark

Not sure what the wiring solution is. but by the way it was described it was a simple fix!, what is really disapointing is that Caterham don't get on top of problems like this, rather than customers having to worry about reliablity issues, mind you given that its a cheap car what can we expect!!!,

 

what made me laugh was Dereks (Cat mid) explanation of hot wiring his Caterham 21 with the same problem.

 

PS Martin did you buy from Cat midlands?, if so was it you i was talking to about looking at second hand vs new, i had my yellow/black roadsport parked outside?

 

Mark

 

 

Edited by - markb905 on 14 Jun 2002 10:00:16

[Martin Plant]

A quick update:

 

Got the starter off after taking a bench grinder to my 17mm spanner to allow access.

 

Stripped the assembly and nothing obviously wrong with motor or solenoid. All solder joints fine.

 

Cleaned up and reassembled. No improvement - worse if anything.

 

I will order a new one tomorrow and will also install a simple sheet metal head shield.

 

Went to Caterham yesterday to try a Superlight R and the man there said "oh yes that's a common problem". In that case why don't they flippin well sort it out I wonder?

 

M.

 

 

[Martin Plant]

New started assembly arrived today. 152 quid plus VAT. Solenoid on bottom (as was the dead one). But interestingly there is now a small piece of insulating wrap clipped to the exposed face of the solenoid.

 

I will still install an alloy heat shield also.

 

Martin