Chelspeed Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 I've been chatting to a number of people who recommend Pagids as a serious brake pad. My only real concern is that all comments seem to be around how good they are for racing and how they last a whole season without changing them. My application, 90% sprints, some road use and no track days or races, seems very different. Do Pagids come in lots of different flavours? I've heard tell of RS14 and RS4 and of course blues which is presumably an alternative way of differentiating the same set of numbers? Is one more suited to sprint use than others? Is there a web site that explains the differences? www.pagid.co.uk redirects to TMD which is of the chocolate fireguard type of standard. I'm on M1122 Mintex at the moment. Race brakes front and rear and am looking for something that works from virtually cold, doesn't need to resist huge temps but gives me a bit more feel than the Mintex which are either off or locked. Could be me though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jones Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 The RS-14's are otherwise refered to as "Blacks", the RS4-2's as blue (and also RS-19's as grey, but these probably won't work well on a Se7en). THe RS-14's are the better of the two. Work very well from stone cold and are even better when they warm up! They squeal a bit and are expensive, but hey you can't have everything! Try looking at http://www.ecparts.co.uk/pagid/pagid.htm Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ward Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Graham, I recently bought some Pagid RS-4's and had excellent service and knowledgable advice from Performance Braking Ltd in Monmouth (01600 713117). I haven't fitted them yet but on a previous car (Scooby) there were brilliant all round. If you're interested give John a ring on the above number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted June 12, 2002 Author Share Posted June 12, 2002 Hmmm, useful advice. Useful website. Tomorrow I'm working in Cardiff, as I live in Cheltenham I'll be driving thro Monmouth twice tomorrow. As you can imagine this is not a coincidence, I spoke to Mr Freeth today but thought I'd get some independent advice. Looks like RS 14 is the way to go. Thanks muchly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodoo Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 My zetec final mapping is finally underway. The ecu is pectel and I've had a continuing problem with it running too rich: 5 gallons=50miles---more or less. The gent doing it reports that this map is set @14 FA mixture, which I believe is about stochiometric. He is changing that to 12 to see if the over-rich condition will be cured. My question is: if stochiometric is 13.8, what other factors in the operation of the motor/ecu could decieve the ecu into running rich when it would appear to be set about right? Thanks to any and all who can cure my ignorance or otherwise provide enlightenment. Further, I rather hope that all of you are unable to answer before next week because you are @ Le Mans and I'm not. Yet another reason to envy life over there!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodoo Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Well, Posting here rather than under new topic just emphasizes why I ask dumb questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul jacobs Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Hmm, very interesting Yankee, I had to read it three times, try and work out what it was all about? Back to Pagids, Graham, I fitted some factory supplied Pagids at the end of last summer [or rather the fronts were from Caterham, whilst the rears for the XR4i caliper, were sourced elsewhere] and have to say that they certainly do work from cold, and show more resistance to fading than the previous Cr*p green stuff pads that I had fitted. I've put on some bigger discs too, although kept the same AP caliper, and I'm now finding that the fronts show a tendancy to lock up under hard braking, although, like you say, I wonder if that's just me. I feel that I've got to be a lot more sensitive with the pedal effort now, so you actually may find that you get a similar response as with your current Mintex, and they are VERY expensive too. So really, I'm not giving you a definitive answer..... Are you thinking of visiting Castle Combe this Saturday for the CCC Action day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Chelspeed, I have the RS14`s fitted all round on the advice of Hyperion and John Freeth and can confirm that they work very well and seem to have good durability. They work well from cold and get better as they heat up. The RS14`s were the pad that I was advised to fit as I want good road performance and also want them to work well on track days and not cause high disc wear. I would advise you to contact John Freeth of Performance braking he will advise you which is the best pad for your application. One problem I have noticed with the pads is the dust that is given off after hard use needs to be cleaned off the wheels if the car is to be stood as any moisture this dust bonds to the wheels and is hard to remove. Apart from that they are an excellent product. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I was on RS14s at Curborough. First big application down the straight had them "come in" big time - well that is my explanation for the lock ups. They certainly work though. I have heard reports that it is very important to clean the dust off as soon aspossible after a run - the dust contain resins that bond very effectively to anything if they are left on and particularly if they are allowed to get wet. Peterid=teal> 253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian crocker Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 That's three people who have said the RS14 works noticeably better when hot and the website shows a huge difference in cold and hot friction. Probably not suited to sprinting then ? Even DS3000 or M1166 have a much flatter friction curve. Ian Edited by - ian crocker on 13 Jun 2002 10:58:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I was under the impression that RS4-2s (Blues) were better at cold temperatures. Peterid=teal> 253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I use Performance Friction C93. I would have thought these would be suitable for a Seven, perhaps there are downsides I'm unaware of? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ward Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Ian Good to meet you at Abingdon - I was advised by John Freeth that for my sprint/hillclimb bias, as well as road use, the 4's were probably better than the 14's... But I think both are a step up from most of the other pads we've been using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jones Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I still think the RS-14's are the better pad for sprints. The cold bite from them is still better than any other pad. Their performance then increases as they warm. Compare the coefficient of friction for the various temp ranges - their cold performance is almost equal to the RS4-2's operating temp performance! The thing you have to remember is that they are soooo much better than most others and therefore need a less forceful application! This can take some getting used to, especially as the initial bite is sharp. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian crocker Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I've never used Pagids so you may well be right. However I do sprint and it seems to me that you don't want a pad that comes in heavily during the first stop or you are likely to lock up during that stop. Especially with a pad that goes from 0.4u to 0.6u during the stop. Something like Hawk Black is flat from 40C to 550C. M1166 is flat from 100C to 700C. When you only brake about 3 times on a course you want to have max efficiency and a known response the first time you hit the pedal. David, I'll be interested to see what you think of those pads if you are at Goodwood this month for the CCC. I have been using EBC Green for the last few years, but I'll be trying something else for that event. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Perhaps you could left foot brake to get the pads up to temperature... (you know I am kidding, right?) Peterid=teal> 253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jones Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Whilst not wishing to sound contrary (but succeeding non the less!!), in my experience the Pagids never feel as if they come in that quickly. I'd like to see the figures for the other pads to indicate the level of stability you suggest. (Genuine interest - not a challenge!!) The trouble with the Pagids is at the price they are (£120 per axle set ish) its an expensive experiment if they don't suit you! Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian crocker Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 http://www.motorsportworld.co.uk/mintex/ctech.htm I have seen graphs for Hawk, but can't remember where. Most of Ferodo's graphs only go down to 150C or 200C but they are very flat above that - see www.ferodo.co.uk Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ward Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Ian Unfortunately I won't be at Goodwood - my Dad's 60th party instead. You may suggest what better way to celebrate turning 60 than watching your son sprint but not everyone shares our priorities!! Next stop is Longcross in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now