Four pointers

[Al Duncan]

Im in the process of ordering a new 7teeth.gif along with me brother and oldman and we are having a debate- (barney) about four point harnesses, we could do with some knowlageable input:-

does anyone have 4 pointers and wish they got inersia reels or vice versa.

Ta

 

New boy

[deeps]

I believe that in the event of a crash the harnesses combined with the FIA bar offer you the greatest protection. Just ask TOM who recently posted a thread about rolling his SL twice

 

Edited by - deeps on 5 Jun 2002 22:11:10

[Richard J Darnell]

no contest - get the 4 point harnesses

they are safer, look good and add to the sense of occasion

[Al Duncan]

Thats what I thought.

 

A pal of ours thinks that 4 pointers will cause problems at T junctions, its a long bonnet!, he has had them before (not in a7)and we havent so was interested in the feedback.

confused.gif

 

 

[scooby dooby doo]

no argumentt. get *6* point harnesses. you'll be FAR more secure, FAR safer (i was in a head on collision recently and didn't even get bruised round my shoulders etc), they look FAR more impressive and it increases the sense of occaision each time you take to the road.

 

Dave Hooper - North London

dmch2@lineone.net

[Charlie7]

I have four pointers for track days and have left in the inertia belts for everyday drving. Speak with them at Caterham and they can do this. It involves using bolts which have a slightly thinner head so the seat can still move on its runners, you can machine these yourself. The Four pointers hang behind the seat and down the sides when not in use.

 

Inertia belts do allow you to lean forwards when exiting on to a busy road, easier to up if you are just popping to the shops, but the four pointers are a must on the track...

 

Charlie7

[bl0498]

Al,

 

Get at least the 4 pointers - not the inertia reel - and preferably the 6 pointers (this is an extra crutch strap you can add later).

 

For any form of competition you will need at least the 4 pointers (and the FIA bar - another must - I can't believe anyone buys the standard roll-over bar now). So if you want to do Curborough etc ....! You will feel much much more secure in a Caterham with harnesses!

 

Caterham do some colours in the 4/6 pointers too so you can even try to match the paint job! I have red ones to match my red car!

 

Have a good hard look at the options when ordering the car - most of the options are far far cheaper to fit at this stage than later, particularly when you are replacing expensive bits (eg 6 speed, dry sump, LSD, big brakes) Another couple of relatively cheap options that I would always recommend is the built in fire ex - Caterham plumb it all in for you (in the boot) before the kit arrives - well worth the money and the battery master switch cutout - again caterham fit this to the tub pre-delivery.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Brian

[ECR]

In the interests of accuracy Three point harnesses are acceptable by the MSA and so you COULD enter Curborough with this set up.

 

However..

 

A four point (or more) is definitely the thing to have in competition as it holds you far more securely into your seat when driving (not its primary function I know). As Brian says you will feel better in the car

[murph7355]

6pt are the way to go.

 

If you accept that harnesses are significantly safer than inertia reel belts, then why skimp? The additional pts prevent any chance of submarining out of the harness and ending up in a mess at the bottom of the footwell.

 

They also mean that the harness is done up properly when you tighten it, making you feel even more a part of the car. Many people wear 4pt harnesses with the lap part way too high.

 

Being the kind sort I ran the passenger side with just 4pts until recently. Have swapped now though.

 

 

[Nick W]

Al

 

Without a doubt go for 4 pointers (if you haven't got the message by now). I had them in my last car and it was never a serious issue at junctions etc. I live in London and there's always punters parked over the give way signs. You just need to edge out carefully. Occasionally you need to undo one side, but it's not a major drama.

 

Much safer, much cooler.

 

Nick

[Phil]

MINUS inertia ADD 4 plus 2 become ONE

 

 

[budgie]

on 6 pointers ,where do the crutch straps attach to the body?

 

 

[CHRIS CLARK]

Om my Seven the 6 point harness has its lap strap and the crotch belt from the same position.

I have always used the six point set-up, but having driven in other peoples cars with just the four pointers. I found that unless the lap section was done up incredibly tightly then as soon as I pulled the over shoulder straps tight the whole lot rode up. Tee total so no beer belly to stop it (but getting worse with food!).

The sixer keeps it all neat & tight without having any one section too restrictive.

 

As an aside, I still have the (original) lap & diagonal fitted & use it if I need to go for a quick run down the road as I can get to the lap top on the passenger seat more easily than having to un-belt every time I stop to change/check something!!!

[Al Duncan]

Thanks guys. its seems fairly unanimous!thumbsup.gif

[Phil]

On my 7 the crutch straps are attatched to the rear seat mounting bolts and the belt simply hides down the back of the seat when not in use. I have only one six point on the drivers side and have just ordered another from Caterham and I intend to swop the used one to the passenger side and fit the new one for my use, if I have time the job will be done this weekend so if you need any pointers I may be able to help.

 

 

[Al Duncan]

Cheers phil,

 

Our seven has just been ordered so we wont be fitting anything until Early August. Its a self build job so we could be needing some pointers on one or two other things before we get round to the belts. Will keep you posted.

smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif

[bl0498]

Al,

 

On my Caterham (a race chassis car) the 6 point harnesses mount onto the tube behind the seat and not the side seat belt points. It is always preferable to have 6 seperate mounting points if possible.

 

Brian

[bl0498]

Al,

 

On my Caterham (a race chassis car) the 6 point harnesses mount onto the tube behind the seat and not the side seat belt points. It is always preferable to have 6 seperate mounting points if possible.

 

Brian

[ashaughnessy]

I'd just like to add an alternative point of view.

 

Four point and six point harnesses are the thing to have for driving on the track.

 

However, I would much rather have inertia reel belts for road driving (I have a six point harness).

 

Why? Because the harness is a right royal pain in the arse! You can lean forward to see round things. You can't turn round in your seat when reversing. You can't reach the handbrake. Particularly for passengers, adjusting for different sizes of people can be awkward.

 

I once reversed into somebody elses car in a car park because I had my harness on and couldn't turn round enough to see properly what was behind me. Stupid of me, I know, but it wouldn't have happened with inertia reels.

 

With inertia reels, you can jump in and go. With harnesses, you can't.

 

What about safety on the road? If you're happy to use inertia reels on your normal car, why wouldn't you be happy with them on your seven? Safety is a compromise, and don't pretend it's not. You compromise safety for convenience and cost. In this case, inertia reels are more convenient and that's presumably why all normal road cars have them.

 

But, for circuit work you want full harnesses, preferably six point.

Anthony

By the way, this is all in my humble opinion :-)

[murph7355]

You're happy with IR belts in your tin top because it has 101 other safety measures incorporated and is also much more visible than a 7 (and so less likely to be hit).

 

And in accidents of your own making, you'll likely be doing much less speed in a tin top (rash generalisation I know - I'm thinking of going round corner accidents).

 

Oh, and many tin tops don't have readily available fixing points for harnesses. Not to mention the need for rear seats, making harnesses difficult/impossible to fit. So yes, a compromise. But in a 7 you're meant to make as few compromises as possible, aren't you?

 

Harnesses are easy to loosen off to help you see at junctions. And when reversing/parking are easy enough to undo for the manoeuvre - speed is hardly of the essence in such circumstances now is it.

 

You can't blame accidents on the sort of seatbelt you happen to be wearing I'm afraid smile.gif

 

Every time you get into a 7 it should be an occasion. Doing up the harnesses, going through your start procedure, taking it easy while it warms up are all part of it, and all help to make it special (if a mite impractical in the conventional sense).

 

Do not compromise on this aspect of its safety. Buy 6pts.

[ashaughnessy]

You're right that I can't blame the belts for hitting someone in a car park. It was my stupidity. However, I am certain that if I had had inertia reels, I would have looked round better and not hit them. So in fact I am blaming the belts to some extent. The same way I might say that poor housing and unemployment are to blame for high crime, even though everyone is responsible for their own actions (oops, getting a bit lefty/liberal here).

 

Also, the more of an "occasion" it is to get in the seven, perhaps the less likely you are to just jump into it and drive it on the spur of the moment.

 

And we all compromise on safety. If you don't want to compromise on safety, don't drive a seven on a track (in fact don't drive any car at all). We are happy to accept a huge yearly death toll on the roads but when there is a minute risk of, e.g., mad cow disease, we're frightened to death. Safety is always a compromise, you just have to find a good balance.

 

I have six point belts but I hate them.

Anthony

[murph7355]

If more cars took a bit more thought before driving was possible, perhaps there'd be a few less accidents on the road anyway?

 

With practice it takes about 30secs max. to do up 4pts and barely more to do up 6pts. A IR belt must take 10secs. It takes me longer than this to put my boots on!

 

Now Anthony, stop blaming the belts for your own carelessness (even only slightly) smile.gif You'll feel better for it in the long run and there's nothing wrong with making mistakes, as long as you acknowledge them and try not to make them twice.

 

Also, there's compromising and there's compromising. For the arguments put forth for IR belts, what is the point of making that one?

 

And you mention they're fine for the track, but surely the main point is that they increase safety, yet you're more likely to have a nasty accident on the public road I would have thought...

 

Al - you might be able to get a cheap set of 6pts somewhere here wink.gif

 

PS I never stopped eating beef and it never did me any harm. Mooooooooooooo.

 

PPS I also think that high crime is *only* attributable to criminals (there being a statistically significant majority of people in poor housing/unemployment that don't commit crime). But don't get me going on that topic again.

 

[ashaughnessy]

Well I'm vegetarian so I didn't have to worry about mad cow disease. The Mad Mushroom outbreak of 1996 had me worried though.

 

What about using a full cage? Do you think everyone should have a full cage for road driving?

Anthony

[murph7355]

No because there's a strong argument for not using them.

 

Unless all bars are foam protected there's a line of thought that says your head may well be in danger of heavy contact with them, even if wearing harnesses. And even with foam you're not necessarily that safe.

 

Undoubtedly a cage is a top idea if your head's helmeted though.

 

Nor do I advocate speed limiters or 1l engines of 50bhp or less. Having some poke is a compromise worth making wink.gif Even if it does leave you open to being public enemy no.1 at times in our lovely land.

 

Vegetarians have much more to worry about than a bit of BSE teeth.gif

[Peter Carmichael]

I think that the apalling death toll on roads would be significantly reduced if all drivers and passengers were properly restrained with static multi-point harnesses and if cars had proper anti-roll, anti-crush structures.

 

Problem is there is no chance of the majority wanting to strap themselves in of their own free will or even of seeing the sense of it. Car manufacturers will continue to furnish their mobile living rooms with comfort items and give their products differentiation by fitting "safety" measures that you don't notice until you need them. Unfortunately safety is one of those fundamental things that is much better achieved using obvious means rather than stealthy ones.

 

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