ps007 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Hi all, I have a conituing problem with the type 9 quafe straight cut 5 speed box. After having it rebuilt only weeks ago owing to a broken syncro ring it has happend again. Alex Wong kindly suggested a steal sycro ring instead of bronze (cheers Alex) can anyone confirm this works as well, as I would like to have it out with the company that rebuilt the box last time. They were recomended to me by Caterham and never sugested this mod to me, even though they did say that this was a week point with the box and as I was putting over 240 bhp through the box on the track I should treat it with kid gloves. (I havent even been on a track since the last rebuild) All experiences and suggestions greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 These boxes will break synchro rings if you change too aggressively. The steel rings last a bit longer but the change feels less cushioned. You have two options, change more slowly or change synchro rings at intervals depending on your aggression. The only other thing to think about is the oil in the box as this affects the synchro action. Phil Stewart is the authority here and he used to recommend a Shell gear oil which I beleive is no longer available. Not sure what his current fave is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps007 Posted June 5, 2002 Author Share Posted June 5, 2002 Thanks Stewart Who is Phil Stewart and where can I reach him? Thanks for the advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Furst Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 Phil Stewart Road and Race Transmissions 01959 525105 mobile 0836 333882 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 Steve Perks at SP Components near Birmingham is another fount of all knowledge on Quaife boxes in Caterhams. I think it was SPC who pioneered the steel baulk rings so he will know all the pros and cons. The other option is to get a dog box. Immensely strong and you'll never need to worry about synchros again. Changing cautiously to let the gearbox catch up will be a thing of the past (as will quiet selection of first gear but what the hell....) Contact Steve on 01527 894232. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 There are two types of steel synchro ring AFAIK. SPC type is moly coated which prevents the ring from friction welding itself to the synchro cone Quaiffe type was/is not and Quaiffe recommended frequent dis assembly and hand lapping of the ring to prevent the welding problem (They may have coated their rings now...) As Stewart says the change is a lot less smooth with the steel rings but is not too bad as long as you get the revs right. For what it is worth the steel rings also break (but it usually takes considerably longer)in the same way as the bronze rings, however, they usualy stay in one piece which allows you to continue driving. The bronze type crack up and jam the box. I can't get to grips with slowing down my gearchange (sounds about as attractive as cornering less fast in order to save on tyre wear) so I guess that a dog box is the next move... Not very happy with the idea of touring with that set up though. Perhaps the ultimate answer is to modify the chassis (a la Paul Harvey Nurburgring 24hr mod) in order to be able to change the gearbox without removing the engine and have one box for touring and another for competition. The exchange can allegedly be acomplished in a little over one hour. This is getting really silly now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 Be cautious of steel rings on a car that is used on the road. Quaiffe's own technical info says that steel rings should be lapped in regularly - in practice after every race outing! Phil Stewart doesn't like the straight steel rings and uses a moly coated ring in it's place (I think). This apparently doesn't need as much attention as the steel ring. I bought a box where the steel ring hadn't been lapped properly or regularly & had attempted to weld itself to the input shaft! Give Phil a ring. PS ECR beat me to it - been trying to post since 10am - precluded by knackered server! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps007 Posted June 6, 2002 Author Share Posted June 6, 2002 Thanks to all of you for good advice. It looks like I am stuck with the bronze rings as the car is for road and track. I will have to now admit that my wife does less damage to a gear box than me when changing. Hears a thought, how about a triptronic (is that the spelling) Has anyone done this for a Caterham yet? I have checked my records and it was Phil that did the last rebuild on the box, I did not recognise the name. I wish he had given me all the advice and information that all of you have given me when I took the box in last time. Cheers to you all Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 FWIW I ubderstand that the steel synchro rings wear smooth to the point taht they are non effective, rather than weld. A dog box is the other solution, but they can be a big awkward on the road. Tiptronic is an auto box with pushbutton gear selection. Having driven a 911 Tip I can report it was a very unrewarding experience compared to a manual box. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM siteid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Any problems so far on the Quaife sequential ones out there ? Broken syncros obviously not but any other problems ? I´m still thinking about fitting one next year. Marius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 Problems? Few and trivial... 13kg too heavy (if you come from 4 speed ally case Quaife dog box) or 6kg if you come from the Caterham 6 speed. But that's not too surprising as there's a lot of extra bits whirling around inside there. The sticks too long to fit under the bottom of the dash, I shortened mine. Arnie snapped his trying to bend it then got it welded and pretended thats what he meant to do all along..... He's now got a real motorbike change, up and down rather than forward and back. Some QA problems from Quaife, mine came direct top instead of overdrive top, some of our Belgium colleagues had bits missing inside. Normal problems with a small company making such good kit that they can't really keep up with demand during the busy pre-season panic time of the year. No reversing light or speedo cable provision if you still have that sort of kit on your car. Apart from that nothing. On mine no problems with dogs or change quailty after 18 months and thats at least 12 sprints and more than 270bhp on wide soft ACB's. It's lovely go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Very limited knowledge here but when I spoke to Mr.Perks it seemed to be the revs that the box would see that bothered him most and not power / torque figures. Using lots of revs? Nigel Mills - 2.0 Zetec carbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fletcher Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I had the same problems until SPC rebuilt it with steel syncros. Give Steve a ring before going down the bronze route agaian. Gear change is ok and you can change normally without the worry. Pity no one tells you of these known problems when you buy the box. Edited by - mick fletcher on 11 Jun 2002 11:50:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps007 Posted June 11, 2002 Author Share Posted June 11, 2002 Hi to Mick and millsn Millsn.....loads of revs mate (maybe that is the problem) Mick.......can you e mail me your tel No, would like to have a chat if you use steel rings, I have spoken to steve already. ps007@btopenworld.com Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I have a quaife sc box with bronze syncros, not had any problems with it (touch wood), done around 3000 track miles. It doesent like changing (2nd to 3rd ussually) if the revs are over 7000rpm (ie it gets a bit crunchy, been like that from the beginning), but apart from that its been fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps007 Posted June 11, 2002 Author Share Posted June 11, 2002 Hi Julians I am comming to the conclusion that it must be me. What bhp are you putting out and how hard / fast do you change gear Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 It has had about 2000 track miles of around 165bhp, and about 1000 track miles of 200bhp so far (car is zetec engined). Its done about 4000 road miles on top of this as well. I cant really comment on how fast I change gear, I just do what comes naturally, although I have definately slowed down my 2nd to 3rd gear changes so that I dont get the crunch any more, but all other changes are at full speed. I rang Phil Stewart and he told me that V quick gear changes would kill the box fairly quickly, he said to give it time between gears. Kind of defeats the point of having the box though. I have to say I dont give it any special treatment apart from 2nd - 3rd. I bet now I've said all this the box explodes at anglesey this friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps007 Posted June 12, 2002 Author Share Posted June 12, 2002 Again it looks like I am too hard on the gears. I have now made my decision (which will probably prove to be wrong) and stay with bronze rings and improve my changing technique. I have spoken with Phil and will take the box back to him. I would also like to appologise to Phil and correct myself for a previous entry.id=red> When I had the box rebuilt by him I was not aware that the engine was pushing out over 240bhp. I recall now that I told him that I belived it to be approx 190bhp and I was only using the car for road and ocasional track days. I understand now why he did not recomend steel rings for this purpose. My mind has got carried away, like my gear changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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