Nick Posted August 17, 2000 Share Posted August 17, 2000 A friend has been hankering for a 7 for a while and was set to take the plunge with a secondhand Superlight until the bike engined Caterhams and Westfields came along, and now he's after some advice and opinions. The car will be mainly for trackdays. He's driven the Westfield Busa and Blade and was very impressed by both, though wonders if the Blade is underpowered at the top end, especially for the more open circuits. He's interested in the Caterham Blackbird but it is quite a bit more expensive so he's still wondering about a secondhand Superlight, though he keeps going on about sequential boxes... Apart from flak about mentioning Westfields, has anyone any pertinent experience or comments? Thanks Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 shhh..... don't mention the W word.... I think the best option is a superlight, but I would say that. No seriously, I am waiting for my superlight - the bike engined cars are good and very fast but at the end of the day it just seems like the bike engine is out of place in the 7. Also I am a bit worried about the g/boxes. I dont think they will be all that reliable. Also bike engines tend to be quite temprimental esp when tuned. I prefered the superlight as it was more reliable / tunable and durable. Simon. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 The Caterham cars are worth the premium in my view - the built quality is in a different plane than the W cars. If he wants a car mainly for track use, go for the Blackbird cars. Their reliability has been tested, and they are as good as or better than any alternative. The Superlight is a much better all round car, but not as good on a track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACR Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 At Brands Hatch the three bike engined cars weren't looking too fast compared to the Superlight R cars. I meant to get a couple of ball park lap times. However the flames shooting from the green goldarts blackbird would make it interesting on track days and entertaining on the road (esp. in towns...)! The main problem with the bike engined W******** is that they are as ugly as the normal ones.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Walker Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 I agree with Keith. Thinking aloud for a moment - it said in one of the Blackbird ads in Low Flying that a retro fit was 8,000 quid, now if you look in the small ads it seem that you can pick-up a Seven for 9,000 quid. Therefore - I know this is a bit simplitic - you should in theory be able to put one together for 17,000 quid minus a few hundred from selling the old engine. In reality you would probably have spend another 2 to 3 grand on bit and pieces. But if it's for track-days and you don't care to much what it looks like! Does this make sense or have I missed something obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 Get a nice Rover K series. Nothing wrong with that! Simon. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 If you read next months' Low Flying you will see my full views on the comparison between R500 and Blackbird, having tested them for the mag. I ordered an R500 for myself because I want an all-round car. When I said the Blackbird is much better on track than a Superlight, I was referring to a 140 BHP Superlight. I suspect that R500 is even faster in the dry. The comparison with the two cars on track over the weekend was indeterminate - Richard Ince's R500 was going very well until he ran out of fuel.... - but the Blackbirds seemed to have tyre problem. On Sunday in the dry with different tyres Doug Newman (Blackbird) and Richard were very closely matched until it rained, at which point the R500 looked much more of a handfull. As a track car though, the Blackbird can be nearly £7,000 cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Green Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 I should add that I don't quite share Keith's views on this one. At first I too, thought the Blackbird more a track car than anything else, but now after over a 1000 miles in P7 DDD my opinion of it has changed completely. It's brilliant on the road. It is a very different experience and the abscence of torque, flywheel and a sharp clutch does make it awkward at first. Once aclimatised though - it's no probs at all. Also after driving both cars on a slippery track I can a little light here too. Firstly the lack of torque makes it easier to get the power down and also the lower mass means that there's less momentum to stop. In the dry though the R500 is quicker and it should be with an extra 80bhp/tonne or so. The 'bird and R500 are two very different machines and I can see valid aguments for both, the only way to decide which would be best for you is to try them. If were my money (and I wish it was) I'd keep the £7,000 in my back pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogvet Posted August 23, 2000 Share Posted August 23, 2000 Sometimes the views expressed on other makes of the 7 genre really saddens me. It would be better if the attitude were more positive as we may be the last generation to be priviledged to self build and drive these cars, before the men in grey suits decide to ban them, as they are obviously too much fun. A long line of satellite controlled tin tops may awaite us all! so, I suggest that we support the fact that others may choose to drive different version of the same theme, as they say "there is more than one way to skin a cat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin doctor Posted August 23, 2000 Share Posted August 23, 2000 What do you expect on a Caterham/Lotus Seven web page???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogvet Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 More intelligence?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderate Clam Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 I have to agree with Dogvet. Although, I personally feel (and I expect the rest of you do, or you wouldn't be here) that the Caterham is the best 7 in production, it's wrong to be snobby about the others makes. I love seeing a gathering of 7's from different cultures and up bringings. Seeing all the differences of the same theme is really interesting. Just as I feel with people. Variety is the spice of life and all that... ...but if my son were to bring home one of them there W*******d's, then there'd be trouble. wink.gif ...Besides we shouldn't criticise others for their mistakes. They are obviously easily led by adverts and salesman. So we should be nice to these "other" 7 owners, they probably feel bad enough about their mistakes without us rubbing the salt in. wink.gif ...Mind you they _DO_ get better customer care, cheaper prices, etc, etc, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACR Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 If the above comments are in relation to describing W********* as ugly then sorry, but they are. The Caterham 7 shape is of great importance to the company. They don't raise the bonnet line simply to save a bit of re-engineering. Sticking big bulges on to accomodate engines is fine, but it doesn't look nice. The W********s I've seen look alright but it's like seeing a supermodels sister - you recognise the shape but it's just hasn't got that indefinable thing that makes it 'right' or beautiful. Anyway, each to their own. I wouldn't buy anything that looked cheap, badly proportioned or tacky - car, camera, or clothes. But I acknowledge that there are those who think the more plastic thats stuck on a car the better so perhaps it's horses for courses = cars for customers. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 When I was considering what car to get back in April I looked at W's and 7's. The 7 seemed so much better built and it was the "origional" and was not a copy, the drive quality and build and reputation of Caterham left me with no choice but to get a 7. After talking to owners of both types of car I think I made the right choice. I just wish they would hurry up building the damn thing!!!! Simon. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 The best is always worth waiting for Simon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 It is just getting to me now, it is Friday and 27 deg outside, but only a week left to go now. I don't think I have ever been this desperate to drive a car before in my life, to add insult to injury the 7's are racing at Oulton on Monday.. DOH! Never mind eh! I will put some pics of my car on my websie when I get it. www.x777cat.com cheers,simon X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin doctor Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Dogvet, a little reality, old chap. For most club members buying a Westfield is the automotive equivalent of buying a pair of fake Levi jeans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogvet Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 A veritable hornets nest! Having driven all sorts of 7s live and di dion,as well as shot gun in JPE. Driven Westfields as well as the new bike engined cars, shot gun in the FW 400, either on track and road, from the driving there is little to choose, maybe aesthetically yes. Even the new Formula 27 with its stainless steel tub in race trim looks and goes the part, enough to raise the heart rate of any dyed in the wool Caterham owner , if it didn't I suggest you go back to driving tin tops!!! Just as well there are others, or we would have to compare the 7 with the new Strathcarron!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Martin Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 Simon, you should have built it yourself, then you could have enjoyed the last few weeks of English Summer! Has anyone looked at the W*******d site to see if they are saying sinilar things in their forum about Caterhams? Who the hell cares? I can only assume that the majority of participants on this site are here because we all made the decision that C's are better than W's, either for looks, build quality, or performance or, all of them . If anyone has changed their mind then they can sell up and buy a W and move websites! Easy init! Jules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted August 27, 2000 Share Posted August 27, 2000 At the time I was going to build it myself, I ordered back in April and Caterham said they could have the kit out to me by the end of July. I reckon I could have had the car running in about 4 - 6 weeks so that would have put me on the road by the end of August, when I asked Caterham about building the car at the factory they said that they could have it ready for end of Sep. That sounded ok to me as if I hit a snag myself in the bulding or SVA then I might not be ready till then anyway, so I got the factory build. As it turns out 2 orders for SL's dropped out so I have got an early build slot, in theory I should get the car this Saturday. The weather has not been all this great this summer oop north anyway so maybe sep and oct will be a bit better, hoping to go to Le Mans next year in it - the weather should be ok there! X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Russell Posted August 27, 2000 Share Posted August 27, 2000 Simon, Whereabouts 'up North' are you? Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Russell Posted August 27, 2000 Share Posted August 27, 2000 Simon, Whereabouts 'up North' are you? Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Russell Posted August 27, 2000 Share Posted August 27, 2000 OOOOOPS!!!!!!!!! Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted August 29, 2000 Share Posted August 29, 2000 Live in Bury. I work in Halifax. You? Ta Simon X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dent Posted August 29, 2000 Share Posted August 29, 2000 You also have John E living near to you + one of his friends owns a seven. Follow on of his links for an e mail address. I'm not too far away in Barrowford, on the other side of Burnley. Andrew Dent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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