Englishmaninwales Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Help needed! Two problems, which I suspect maybe related. 1. Poor running at small throttle opening upto 3k rpm, so making driving around town very difficult with lots of kangerooing, driveline shunts and not running smoothly. 2. It is particularily bad after a hot restart with inability to idle, lots of missfire and popping with the exhaust smelling of a rich mixture, again all at 2-3krpm partial throttle opening. This second problem goes after the engine has been thrashed for a few minutes, leaving only problem 1. Normal cold start up is fine as is the idle. Engine is fine if driven hard, and the engine revs freely and seems to produce full power. The engine sounds fine on overrun with no pops and bangs. I did wonder if it was using more fuel than it used to, but I haven't measured this. The setup is standard 1994 1400 supersport with SS ECU, forward facing plenum with 56mm stepper motor TB, 'blue injectors', dry sump, cam timing set to inlet 65 exh 45 thou at TDC. This setup was working fine at the end of last year on my 1800 installation, with the exception of the injectors which were changed back from 'cream' to the standard 'blue' ones. The injectors have not been used for 3 years, were working fine previously and carefully stored. I have tried resetting and replacing the ecu with a spare. Ive checked all electrical and vacuum connections. Any ideas? Thanks. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Have you cleaned the IACV? Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted April 27, 2008 Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 CagerH The TB is the earlier type, with the idle control by a stepper motor working the throttle spindle rather than an IACV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 ah, Ok Is the stepper motor working properly? Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted April 27, 2008 Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 CageyH I think so...at least it moves up an down in the usual fashion at initial switch on and if the ECU is reset. Just been looking at it now, and typically if left for 5 minutes when hot, the restart is is difficult requiring a partial throttle with refusal to run at idle position, then running very roughly with loads of black exhaust. Rechecked the vacuum to ECU and is clear, and disconnecting this when running in this poor state makes no difference. Throttle pot shows 0.7v closed and 4.7v fully open (Haynes states normal range 0-1v and 4-5v respectively). Disconnecting the coolant temp ECU sender doesn't make any difference. There are no signs of an air leak around the TB. Arggggh Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlymoFraser Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Malcolm If I were you I'd put the 1800 back in 😬 Seriously, hope you sort it , wish I could add something useful for you R287 Mobile Jaffa Cake- It's black at both ends with a smashing orangey bit in the middle here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Malcolm, have you got the lambda sensor fitted and working? Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 and Mrs Locust's Blue Roadsport Academy 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted April 27, 2008 Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 Ian not fitted with a lambda sensor. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinS Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Really? I thought all EU2 cars had lamba sensors to control the fueling. You learn something new every day 😬 ------------------------------- Martin Saunders ohh, is it upgrade time? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Malcolm, not sure of the details of the SS EU2 ECU but if it is meant to have one, the ECU could be trimming to fully rich based on no signal i.e. a sensor failure condition. Closed loop operation is only usually initated once up to temperature and at lower load conditions which fits in with the symptoms described in your first posting. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 and Mrs Locust's Blue Roadsport Academy 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Hmmm! Certainly no lambda sensor or wiring for it. This has occurred suddenly after re-installing the 1400 engine after running with an 1800 engine for three years with this ECU, without a problem. No other changes including same FPR, except reverting back to original blue injectors. The hot restarting problem persists until the engine has been flogged and then runs well except for as described in problem (1) above. Thanks for the help so far! Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartmoor7 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 My standard 1994 1400SS does have a lambda sensor. MY BLAT-O-METER 2008: 25 (to 26th April) 2007: 70 2006: 89 2005: 91 2004: 64 2003: 66 2002: 66 2001: 79 2000: 32 (divorce!) 1999: NRA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Looks like it should have one fitted then! There are a couple of unused plus on the wiring loom so presumably one of these. Any pointers which one the lambda should be plugged into? No fixing point for the sensor on exhaust manifold, (CC supplied long 4 into 1) though. Strange thing is why it has run perfectly for years and suddenly doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Dr Hickey YHM Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 and Mrs Locust's Blue Roadsport Academy 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 By the way; did your car ever run with no thermostat? Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 and Mrs Locust's Blue Roadsport Academy 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 My 1.4 & now 1.8 have not had lamda sensors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Malcolm Check the routing of the coil HT lead as I recall Angus & Tessa had a similar problem. Might be worth a look on their website. Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 This might sould stupid but check the vacuum pipe and make sure it's not got oil in it. Mine did once and it caused lots of kangerooing/driveline shunt until it wa cleaned out. Are those the correct setting for the cam timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 If you have a spare TPS it might be worth trying this as your symptoms are similar to those I experienced when it failed on my R500. Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klunk Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Hi Malcolm , Just to take stock of where we are: 1) It's overfuelling at low revs as denoted by the black smoke. 2) It starts okay when cold but not when hot. This is to be expected as more fuel is needed to start the engine when cold (choke) and this will be written in the ignition map. However the ECU will be looking to the coolant temp and intake air temp sensors to determine how much fuel, if any, is necessary. 3)TPS voltages are correct so for the moment I would discount this. 4)Rightly or wrongly, you didn't have a Lamda sensor when it was a 1400 (or an 1800) before so you shouldn't need one now. You say that removing the coolant temp plug makes no difference - but then again it won't if it is already broken. The following is a list of resistances at given tempatures for the sensor. If you have a spare it's probably easier and quicker just to change it an give it another go. 0deg = 5900ohm 20deg = 2500ohm 40deg = 1180ohm 60deg = 600ohm 80deg = 330ohm I don't think it will be the injectors, but if you want to test them they should have 16ohm resistance between the terminals. Not having a K series I'm not sure how your ECUs are set up but is there anything you changed going to 1800 (map etc) that you have not put back? It's going to be something simple so I would check all the loom and sensor plugs for damage as well as the above. If you need more sensor calibration info give me a shout Regards, Giles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboylaw Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Just a thought here, My E39 BMW 525 was having terrible hot start problems, cold start not an issue, ran fine, up to temp and was great all day long, but if I stopped to fill with fuel then on restart it would die, then when going it would falter and not idle until I had driven a few miles at higher revs. There was also a distinct smell of fuel and the economy meter was well into the lower end of the scale (10 - 15 mpg when driving part throttle etc..) The cure... Well new Crank and Cam sensors. Same happened to a friend's car at around the same mileage/age (90K/7 years). Not sure how old the engine is in your car, but if you are able to swap the sensors out it might be another avenue to follow. Jon ----------------------------------- Ital or Ford... the choice is yours.... Hmmm, I'll have the ford please Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Hmmmm....Seems cured, but frustratingly I'm not entirely sure why. Rechecked all connections, checked the TPS again, confirmed all vacuum tubes connected and clear. From the wiring diagram Ian Blakeman sent me I identfied the unused wiring spur and plug for the lambda sensor. Interestingly, after replacing the engine recently I coiled this unused wire up (I've always assumed it was for an unused Rover accessory) and cable tied it to part of the loom close by (wires to the starter solenoid, ECU and temperature gauge coolant sensors). Correct running seemed to occur after undoing the cable tie and allowing the wire spur and plug to hang free. Is it possible that the ECU was seeing an induced voltage in the the lambda spur, then trimming the fuel when hot? Whatever the cause, the car is running perfectly, both problems gone. My only hope is that next week it's not back again. Giles, thank you for the temperature sender resistances, I shall check the sender anyway. A big thank you to all for the advice. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klunk Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 *thumbup* - Told you it would be something simple . It's entirely possible you have had an induced voltage, especially if it is anywhere near the coil pack/leads. All the best and hopefully see you at the next Wybunbury meet. Giles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 There are lambda sensor heater supply and signal cores in the lambda connector. If the plug is not capped and watertight there could be tracking from the power to the signal connections. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 and Mrs Locust's Blue Roadsport Academy 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Ian yes the plug is open 😳, I will cap it thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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