How to gain turn-in

[A10ROX]

What would you change to get better turn-in (avoid understeer wash-out)

 

 

A10ROX now garaged with D10ROX (Red GT3)!

[martinwhitcher]

raise rake, if that doesn't work add a little bit more toe out.

 

one step at at time, if it doesn't work you can always revert back.

 

Martin

 

MW 51 CAT

Superlight No.171

now known as:Superlight DVA 250

[CharlesElliott]

It would be useful to know how the car is setup currently as so many things can affect it. Race cars are setup with a little toe-out to help turn in, but rake is also important.

 

Most racing schools will teach you that understeer on turn in means you are going in too quickly.

 

Charles

---

My SuperGraduates 2006 diary

My SuperGraduates 2005 diary, My Caterham Academy 2004 build and race diary

[ECR]

Definitely going in too quickly ...

As Martin says, increase rake and add toe out. I know from seeing your set up figures that you have toe out. I would raise your rear ride height a little more than the 15mm (?) you have and see if that suits you.

[mav]

When I had my car FF, I also had a little tow out set. Seems to tip into the corners ok...

 

 

[h_____]

Going in to quickly, or with the incorrect balance on the car. Assuming this is on track behaviour try going in "hotter" but under the brakes, this will give you more wieght over the front wheels as you need the car to turn. If you are jumping off the brakes, then turning into the corner, you can expect understeer.

 

9/10 its the driver. I used to think my car understeer at turn, then someone drove my car who knew what they were doing, it was all me!

[susser]

Stirling Moss once said something about this, on the telly.

He was referring to a dab on the brakes to get some weight transfer onto the front wheels as you turn in.

What we now know as Trail Braking;

Effectively, what h____ said. Instead of stepping off the brake pedal, slowly release the brake as you trade braking traction for turning traction, keeping within the friction circle and maintaining your traction budget.

If you do all this, you'll be going slower anyway.

 

PS

Show us your GT3; Jonny-the-Boy has got one and it's a cracker. Gearbox 5hagged though.

 

Edited by - susser on 11 Apr 2008 10:09:20

[A10ROX]

Changed to Nitrons on the advice of everyone who has ever used them

tried to leave everything else the same including the driver

car seems to have change particularly turn-in

 

now what should I change back

springs now 225/150 rather than 250/215

sump 5mm lower

rake 20mm from 15mm

toe out 2.5 (may have been as much as 7.5)

 

A10ROX now garaged with D10ROX (Red GT3)!

[Mark Durrant]

What ratio of clicks do you run on the dampers front to rear 🤔 I would suggest you start with half the number of clicks on the front to the rear as this works for me when using Kumho's at sprints and hillclimbs

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[neilg]

In analysing my technique on track I nearly always have some braking on in turn in , not much but i find this helps the natural understeery nature of Caterhams at speed. The other night at Brands I found I was trail braking into every corner particularly Paddock Hill bend which I suspect is as good a corner as any to induce undersrteer. This gets some weight over the front and prevents mid corner wash out. Of course all the other things apply such as not getting on throttle too soon etc etc. Thinking about it a bit more I think I'm gradually lifting off the brakes at turn in but still have a bit on if you see what i mean.

The old addige ( spelling?) of doing all your braking in a straight line and then lifting and then turning in is i think wrong in a Caterham as the weight transfer takes weight off the front and induces understeer.

Another thing I think helps is to very smoothly think your way into the corner with tiny steering wheel movements rather than just aggressively tipping the car in. This helps the car get keyed into the corner in a nicely balanced way. Smoothness is the key and on track days you follow alot of people who brake like mad, come off brakes and then wang it in the corner only to understeer all the way around.

All this works for me but there are all sorts of opinion on the matter.

Getting the driving technique right is i believe far more important than thinking Nitrons are the answer etc . Tuition is always the best investment i think.

Cheers Neil

[Grim Reaper]

As a suggestion, put some more height under the sump, the effect of winding the springs tighter should put more weight on the front and give you less understeer.

[Jason Plato]

If on slicks you will need stiffer rear springs and posibly more arb.

Dont touch the front

use 10 from hard all round on dampers :-)

[Stuart Faulds]

Stiffer rear springs and less rake - why did you change from the 215's?