Wet sump/Dry sump

[MikeW]

Neal,

I run a 1600k (Caterham Mega Grad)

It's fitted with an Apollo tank and has done close to 15000 track miles on CR500's and Yoko 48's. Most of these have been hard testing/race miles. It's just been stripped and the bottom bearings are in need of replacement (as are the liners/valve springs etc)I've probaly gone through 4 gearboxes and a couple of clutches in the same period

Most of the guys run a similar set up and oil surge failures are rare providing oil is checked regularly. I would not run anything stickier than the above tyres though without a dry sump. Hope that helps

 

MikeW

Mega Grad Race No 3

[Neal H]

Mike - Thanks for the information - It's a big help a quite reassuring.

 

To be honest, I am having a hard time believing that Caterham would produce a car like the Superlight - which is clearly destined to be used by many as a track toy - and spec it as standard with an engine set up that is likely to fail in a short period due to oil starvation! The net result would be a lot of warranty claims and a lot of very unhappy customers.

 

When I bought mine from Caterham Midlands, I specifically asked whether the warranty would be invalidated by track use, and was assured it wouldn't be (within reason).

 

Neal.

[Casbar]

Neil, Mike's car is in need of new bearings etc, it doesn't tell you after how many miles the bearings were actually shot or starting to wear. Race cars expect to do engine rebuilds.

 

If you believe Caterham will honour engine warranties after you have been hooning around a track - good luck.

 

At the end of the day, its your engine so you pays your money and takes your chances. I personally would ring Dave Andrews and ask his advice. But if you don't have the funds for a dry sump, then its all academic anyway.

 

Those of us the run dry sumps, don't do it because its a tric bit of kit to have, we do it to protect 5k plus of engines.

[oilyhands]

Neal,

 

Bearings are replaced as a matter of course whenever an engine is taken apart.

 

IME, most engines both road and track that run without dry sumps or Apollo tanks have damage to the bearings, from light contact damage up to and including complete bearing destruction with delamination and cavitation of the bearing surface, in some case I have been amazed at how well the engines have been running with complete disastrous failure imminent.

 

Alos IME, engines that have Apollo tanks fitted seem to a great degree *relatively* immune to this sort of damage.

 

A dry sump is the complete answer, but be aware that the Caterham system has a number of disadvantages in that the tank itself is short on capacity, it only has one scavenge stage and it uses the existing internal pressure pump. I have seen bearing failures due to the pressure stage getting ahead of the scavenge pump under extreme conditions.

 

You would do well to look carefully at the Pace system which is altogether a better thought out and engineered solution.

 

Oily

 

Edited by - oilyhands on 5 Feb 2008 22:45:19

[SLR No.77]

I've also experienced some shortcomings with the Caterham system, I believe related to the belltank itself ......

 

Example: I've found that on the new Anglesey Coastal circuit, the high speeds attained along the long coastal curve from Church, followed by the severe braking going into the sharp 90º left before Rocket (6th down to 2nd gear IIRC), causes oil starvation during the 90º left.

The left hander is in no way long enough long enough to cause starvation alone (not normal on left turns anyway), therefore I believe the issue is related to the sustained braking causing oil in the engine/sump to be pushed forward away from the scavenge outlet, but more importantly oil in the belltank being pushed hard against the front wall, away from the outlet to the pressure pump. Pressure quickly stabilises again afterwards.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same?

 

There's no baffling arrangement of any sort in the belltank and I believe this compromises the setup in such conditions. I'm trying to work out whether a small baffle could be added to the inside, maybe mounted from the "blue plate", to help hold oil down at the tank bottom during heavy braking.

 

I'm running a gold pump and SPA digital pressure gauge so reasonable scavenging and good pressure info!

 

The twin scavenge of the Pace setup is definately better being equally spaced along the sump, as is a separate correctly baffled tank. I do like the separate pressure pump of the Caterham system though!

 

Stu.

 

Joint Area Representative MAD Sevens (Merseyside & District).

www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬

 

 

[Allen Payne]

Never had time to look at the gauges at that corner!

[Casbar]

I've got the Pace system got to say

[Englishmaninwales]

Stu

Not enough oil in the tank