k80rum Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Boo... 🙆🏻 Thanks Gambo, sorry Paul. I've seen talk of 'long front's being grafted on at Arch. I had always guessed it meant more of the forward chassiswork was being replaced. What is a 'long front' then? did car before a certain time have a 'short front' ? Darren E K80RUM Website and Emerald maps library Superlight R #54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hm! I had a new long front in '96 after a shunt but as far as I know its the same as the old one. I wonder what the differences are. I thought it was just the top rear mount that needed to be moded to the new, higher position. I talked to Gary May this afternoon and he didn't mention such a major mod. Maybe best to take the car down to see what's needed. A new front would nearly double the cost of the job on an old car so questionable unless doing a major rebuild. Need to reconsider maybe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I asked Gary about an anti-roll bar on the front and he was quite adamant that I wouldn't need one. I have a feeling the car he built for Brodie Branch did employ a front ARB however but that was used exclusively for extreme track work as I understand it. Gary also advised me to disconnect the rear ARB for road use as well. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 There is an ARB option available. It runs off the rockers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Interesting to hear about the rear ARB recommendation Brent. I'm still running mine (on the second hole). I might try disconnecting it, to see how it changes things. For comparison, your SV has a watts-linkage too doesn't it? Darren E K80RUM Website and Emerald maps library Superlight R #54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Thanks for the response guys! Sorry, been away from the computer for a while. Hi Brent Thought you'd be along sooner or later I've had some interesting correspondence with Gary. I'm going to go for it I think the kit is very good value for money, if you're building from scratch, like me. If you offset what you would pay for the CC suspension package. I think it's also worth the extra £322.55 to upgrade to Nitrons all round. (The front spring/dampers (AVO's) are included in the kit if you're just going for the front kit) In fact, if you buy the rear dampers and springs, add A-frame, radius arms and a hardware kit, that's the whole suspension package. There is an inboard ARB £186.38 Gary tells me they are about to test some slimmer Nitrons next month, so I'm going to wait and see what the outcome of that is before I do anything. Could help with your airbox mod Darren? Oh! and apparently, it's been crash tested Whether or not that was intentional, I don't know! 😬 Cheers, Mick. If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Maybe because the inboard setup is much stiffer than the outboard and the falling rate is eliminated, the front arb isn't required to keep the car flat in the corners. Dunno! Apart from generally understanding the geometry, suspension is still a black art to me. From reading discussion about the rear arb here over the years, a lot of people consider it to be unnecessary. Some years ago I drove a series of laps around Castle Coombe at each of the settings and settled on one in from the end being best. Didn't try it without though. Now, about this long front requirement........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Paul, I don't think the inboard setup is "Stiffer" That depends on your spring rates, and damper settings. It is more efficient because of the rising rate. In other words the dampers work better. If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 I'm sure Gary will not mind me posting these pictures he sent me here I'm not sure if the particular car is an SV, it's hard to tell, but I would asume it is, as the diagonals are not removable (But I think that was an option on the S3?) There are some pic's there of my SV chassis for comparison. But it's easy to see the quality of the freestyle kit. The anodised fulcrum blocks are a nice attention to detail I think. If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The quality of the kit is nice. I have one in my garage. Going to start fitting it soon. Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Really nice piece of kit. The S3 does have the option of removable diagonals. Getting a Vx engine in and out with them in place is not easy. The Vx race series had them welded in. At first sight its not easy to see why the rear mount couldn't be changed to suit the pre '96 chassis without the need for the expensive new type long front. I'm sure Gary has considered it. I think your signature says what I feel about this Mick, until proved otherwise anyway 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 CH, which chassis do you have? Is your car on the road now? If it's an SV, I'd love to hear your comments on the difference, between old, and new. A bit academic really, as I've talked myself into one! *redface*But interesting anyway. If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Paul Nothing that can't be done with a hacksaw, and a mig welder! If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Being Slim, I only have a S3. I have not started to fit the kit yet. Probably will this afternoon Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 I'm slim too, but I have broad shoulders Have fun in the garage! If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Of to go and grab some spanners now.... Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 My car now has no front wheels.... ☹️ Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Thanks for posting the pics Mick. The rear struts for the turret have definitely had their pickup points revised - a much better idea to use the wishbone points. As an aside, I notice on that blue car that the brake hoses have been run alongside the trailing part of the lower wishbone. I wonder why it's been done? It looks marginally neater but will leave the car with a hole in the side of the bodywork. The brake pipework is along the LHS of the engine bay too. I wonder if that's a Duratec thing as mine's on the RHS. It'd make sense I suppose to have the brake line on the opposite side of the engine bay to the exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Make sure you get sent the right rear supports 😔 Mine are the new ones, but I need some like Darren's, as I have removable diagonals. Won't be finishing this quickly now.... Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 No problem Darren. Yes I noticed that too, and wondered if Tie wraps were O.K. for the SVA? They look like hard brake lines? If they are, then they'll have to connect to flexible ones anyway. They've probably done it to save having a long, floppy fleible hose. I specc'ed my chassis for Duratec, and I also asked CC to run the brake lines, and loom along the left hand side for me, because of the exhaust primaries being on the right hand side. (Another good reason for me going to Duratec! It will save my hearing! (LHD) All these good ideas came from asking numpty questions on BC by the way. If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Oh! Bad luck CH! Won't they mount onto the top rear wishbone mounts anyway? If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Nope 😔 I tried. I would have to grind the 2nd removable diagonal fixation off. Progress shots here. Still, I got the RHS fitted. Just need to tidy up the upright, and fit the uprated hubs, and shock absorber etc. Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I can see now why I would need a new front. The top wishbone mounts are about 2 inches lower than on my older chassis and I can imagine that Arch would say it was cheaper to change the front, rather than modify the old one. Presumably the design mod was done to the chassis to improve the standard suspension geometry. No quick or cheap fix, I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Sorry to hear about the rear supports CH ☹️. It sounds as though there are 2 versions of the kit then - the version that I've got, designed for cars with removable diagonals and the version John Coates has/you've been sent, which is for cars without the diagonals. It's annoying to have to stop mid-work but hopefully Gary can get the replacement parts over to you quickly (I've still got a lower nearside wishbone on my shelf 'cos I got 2 nearside ones by accident in my first order) On a positive note, the nickel finish looks great. (I'm also envious of the bench-mounted press in one of one pictures. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 I was wrong Daren, those are flexible hoses on the front wishbone. I had another look, and zoomed in. I guess you could plug the hole with a grommet. I think I prefer the way CC do it. CH, bugger! At least you're on the same Island. I see you been visiting the nickel plater Which dampers are you fitting? Paul, maybe Freestyle would make some diagonals to fit? Won't hurt to ask. If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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