1400Kss to 1800Kss engine swap advice

[Brucey]

Hello fellow blatchatters

 

I've just put my Caterham up on stands ready to put in my R300 engine but have a few questions before I take out a perfectly good 1400 engine!

 

1. I intend to refit the 1400 flywheel and run the existing EU2 ECU. I also intend to fit the verniers from the 1400 (along with a VVC cam belt and mechanical tensioner). I intend to remove the carbon canister thing in front of the drivers footwell. I am fitting beige injectors to the 1400ss inlet manifold.

QUESTION:

Will any of the above reduce my chances of passing a full emissions test during the MOT (1993 Factory built car requires full test)

 

2. Is it o.k to support the car with 2 axle stands at the back and 1 in the middle of the crucifix at the front so I can get my engine hoist under the front of the car?

 

3. How much do I need to take off before removing the engine? I.e. Rad, alternator, plenum, steering column etc.

 

4. Where is the best place to attach lifting strops to a K series? I.e. Would it be better to make and fit some lifting eyes somewhere to get the correct angle.

 

5. How easy is it to drill & tap the hole to convert to a mechanical cam tensioner? I'm assuming I use a pilot drill first. Is it better to make a template from the old block or just mark it out?

 

6. I think there is a slight oil leak from the gearbox. I intend to take the engine out without the box (my garage isn't long enough for both at the same time!). Is removing the box straight forward? I.e. mounts, speedo drive etc.

 

I haven't taken a engine out for over 30 years. Life seemed much easier when I was young and ignorant.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Bruce.

[Myles]

There's loads in the archive about this.

 

i) You need to check whether the 1400 flywheel will still be OK. Early ones aren't compatible IIRC. Also check the flow-rate of the cream injectors- colour isn't a 100% guarantee..

 

ii) Mmm. Well, I/we've never needed to do that. Try at least to get stands under the wishbones as well - not ideal but better than nothing.

 

iii) Rad - no, but wise (in case you ram the hoist into it). ALternator -yes - not 100% necessary though. Plenum - yes - if you have the proper hoist cradle. Steering-column - nope, but easy to do.

 

iv) Dunno - always had the use of a genuine Rover cradle...

 

v) Oh god. Check out my site...

 

vi) Nope. I/we've always taken my engine out leaving the box behind. I've also helped in a box+engine installation - but I prefer engine only.,

 

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7s Ecosse™

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Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com

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[Mick Day]

Hi Bruce

 

Exciting time.......... I remember the 1st time I took my engine out. Had a good friend to hold my hand & he loaned me his crane. Thanks Adrian!

 

1. Can't answer on the emissions but all the charcoal canister does is take "fumes" from the fuel tank breather. Remove it & do the mod here for the fuel tank breather.

2. I've seen Caterham do this in their workshop.

3. Remove the engine bay diagonal bars if you have them. Take out the rad as it stops you swinging the engine into it! Take off the exhaust & starter motor. You will probably be able to keep the alternator but if you don't have removable bars you may have to remove it. You can remove the engine with an Apollo in place. Difficult but I did it. No need to remove the steering column.

4. I use 2 ratchet tie down straps around the engine. Works well.

5. Never done this.

6. I've taken my engine out 3 times & have always split gearbox/engine. Remove all bolts from bell housing to engine (don't forget the ones into the sump) & with the engine mounts removed & the engine supported by the crane push on the clutch pedal with your hand & the engine will pop off the input shaft. With the engine out of the way remove reverse light connection & speedo drive. If possible drain the gearbox oil. Undo the big central bolt through the gearbox mount & gently manhandle the gearbox out. The prop will drop out the back. It can be done single-handed but it's easier with help.

 

It's actually very easy but double-check everything before you do it. Also remember to label all electrical connections before you start.

 

Good luck

 

Mick

 

 

[Allen Payne]

would take both the manifolds off, but leave the gearbox attached & alternator attached.

 

If you do leave the gearbox attached remember that all the oil pours out the back of it once it's tilted upwards. (also remove the gear stick)

 

It's a lot easier than it seems!

 

[Brucey]

Thanks for the info so far guys

 

Myles,

You've got me worried now. I had not anticipated any flywheel problems, I'll check the archives.

 

Mick,

How did you know I had an Apollo

 

I would feel happier about the whole project if someone else who has carried out the same conversion can confirm the their 1800ss passed a full emissions MOT test using 1400ss plenum and ECU.

 

Bruce.

[Mick Day]

You mentioned in an earlier post you had an Apollo.

 

Flywheel: If you're using your original 1.4 flywheel & retaining the same ECU then everything will be OK. However if you're using the flywheel from the new engine with the same ECU there could be problems.

 

You could of course run the new engine with it's ECU/flywheel (if you have them) but you would need to rewire the injector/coil side of things.

 

Why? Well the earlier flywheels have a different tooth pattern to the later flywheels plus the later injector/coil wiring was different. AFAICT you're using the original flywheel with the original ECU so the ECU will know no difference & there will be no problem.

 

As long as you have a catalyst that's in working order you stand a good chance of passing the MOT. The ECU will know no difference & will fuel/time as before. However the bigger injectors & the increase in cc may affect emissions. To be honest your going to have to make a leap of faith here & maybe get a programmable ECU if all else fails.

 

I would suspect most people have fully kit/componant built cars so are only relying on visible smoke tests.

 

My conversion in 2000 was fraught with problems as we were trying to run the new engine complete with new flywheel/ECU but with the original engine loom wiring & coil. Caused many a headache.

 

Good luck

 

Mick

[TomB]

My conversion was on a kit built car, with no CAT converter, so visible smoke only. Just for fun I had the MOT guy test the emissions - it would have failed on CO2 by quite a margin. Id expect it to fail & budget for an emerald over the coming year. Good excuse to tell the Missus!!

 

I think using the 1.4 MEMS with bigger injectors is a relatively crude way of upping the fuel delivery, so it not as carefully callibrated as using a 1.8 ECU with 1.8 injectors. Mine certainly seems a bit smellier, like its running rich, but this could be just a coincidence with supersport cams, no Cat or lamba sensor.

[Willie.]

Brucey,

 

I've gone 1400SS to 1800SS.

 

I'd no problems with the 1400 flywheel on the 1800.

 

I assume you know about the spigot bearing needing a sleeve, and possibly the box input shaft needing shortened.

 

I can't remember which TB & Pressure regulator I was using at the time...but mine passed an MOT emmissions no problem.

 

Just for your encouragement, mine is 148.1bhp (Measured at Emerald)...although I do have bigger valves & a ported head.

 

Never bother with a template for the tensioner hole...just start drilling. Any extra holes will loose weight anyway 😬

[Brucey]

O.K., I feel a bit better now!

 

I'll take my chances with the MOT emissions. I should get a good 2 months worth of driving in before the MOT is due anyway 😬

 

OpLoc,

I'm assuming you reused your std 1400K ECU, but that wouldn't explain what you were doing hanging around Emerald's place getting your BHP checked

The spigot brg is already in the R300 crank and I'll check the length of the input shaft when the engine's out.

 

Did you go for a 'long first' box and lightened flywheel?

What year is your car?

 

Just off to the garage now to drain some vital fluids

 

Bruce.

[davidvoas73]

fwiw I have always found it easier if you remove the radiator, its only 4 nuts and the fan/fan sensor connectors & allows you to create more clearance as you can flip the header tank up and over out of the way, it also makes access to the alternator easier, if you intend to remove it before takng out the engine which again gives you more clearance, which all means you don't have to raise the engine too much making it easier to manouver.

[Mick Day]

The spigot brg is already in the R300 crank and I'll check the length of the input shaft when the engine's out.

I have some pics of my shortened input shaft against a ruler. Let me know if you need a copy.

[Willie.]

Brucey,

 

5 of us came over in convoy from N.Ireland to the 50th event. We called in to Emerald en route as Timbo was getting his mapped.

 

I was bullied into getting a power run to see if all my tinkering was to any avail.

 

ECU is original 1400 Supersport ECU. Flywheel is standard 1400 item, gearbox is Caterham 6speed with 3.92 diff.

 

Its a 1994 car.

 

I run the cream injectors, 1800 pressure regulator, plastic inlet manifold, Supersport throttle body (Think it's 52mm Dia), Supersport ECU & cams, Paul Ivey Big Valves, Powerspeed 4-2-1 and a ported head. This lot passed emissions (Although not 100% sure it was that TB, might've been smaller platsic one).

 

At Emerald with the above, it was misfiring a bit on light throttle, due to being rich. However, at full throttle or higher RPM fuelling was spot on.

 

That's the limitation with running the MEMS. I could back off the fuel pressure, but then it would be too lean at the top end...where it is important.

 

If you can afford it, an Emerald will get the most out of your setup.

 

I can't afford an Emerald, but lucky for me...I never use light throttle anyway 😬

[SLR No.77]

Twas a fine day at Emerald - Timbo's car on the rollers

 

Stu.

 

www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬

 

 

[Dannyboy]

I straight swapped the engine for mine, retaining the 1400 s/s cams, followers, plenum, flywheel etc.....only changed the block and the injectors/ Fuel pressure regulator.

 

As for removal....if it's an early chassis, for the sake of 4 bolts it's easier to take out the two chassis rails in the engine bay for fitment. It's easier to fit the engine with alternator, inlet plenum, fitted then!

 

As for stropping...lots of places on the engine to wrap a strap round, especially if refitting the plenum. It can be easier to use the exhaust manifold studs on the exhaust side for the lifting chains/ strops.

 

Manual tensioner...DVA had a template that we used to drill these as Dave supplied the bottom end...It's simple..but you need to ensure the holes are drilled in the correct place! So...I'd see if anyone has/ make a template.

 

Emissions....dunno about that as mine was supplied as a kit...but when tested it seems to pass the CO etc emissions test.....even though i don't think it requires it!

 

Gearbox....undo the speedo cable and reversing light, then the gearstick...centre bolt from the gearbox mounting and it's ready to come out....

 

Dannyboy

 

[TomB]

I kept the original 1.4 fuel pressure regulator and it all seems to work OK. I think one day Ill go for an Emerald ECU and get it properly mapped. One day. After Ive saved for a house deposit and got my digi SLR 😳

[Brucey]

Thanks for all your advice guys.

 

I'm just getting to the point of no return (exhaust is off and fluids about to be drained).

 

I think it's now just a question of plodding my way through the transplant methodically.

 

Bruce.