Engine dreams

[Glen]

What Caterham and Minister have done with the the R500 engine is impressive enough - but wouldn't it be groovier still to have a totally bespoke power plant? TVR have proved that it is feasible for a small company to develop and manufacture unique engines with characteristics specially designed to suit their products.

 

Light, simple, small, powerful, charismatic, tractable, high quality and different would all be high on my own list of key words in the design brief. The current vogue for bike power signals a desire to match some of these qualities - but (although I haven't experienced such first hand) I supect that meagre torque, total lack of flywheel, minimal engine braking and narrow power-band would not be on most people's wish list for a road engine.

 

Getting back to TVR their latest engine is a four litre twenty four valve straight six, producing 360bhp and 310lb/ft within 7000 revs. Half of that might make a good starting point - two litre, twelve valve triple giving 180-200bhp. Light, simple, small, powerful, charismatic, tractable, high quality and different. And it would sound fantastic.

 

Dream on.

[Graham Sewell]

Do car engines dream of fuel injected sheep?

 

[Geoff Johnson]

I know a welshman who dreamt of sheep

 

Geoff

[Matt Prior]

 

Not sure I fancy the imbalance of a two-litre triple, unlike a straight six which is perfectly balanced (so a wise man with lots of letters after his name used to tell me).

 

Instead, how about Honda's S2000 motor. 2.0-litres, 240bhp, no tractability/overheating problems; though I don't think it sounds quite as nice as the engine in the Integra Type R's or, whisper it, even the Civic VTi's. Maybe that's because the S2000 doesn't have a roof.

 

But, with a free flowing, louder exhaust and bespoke intake system, I'm sure it'd sound just fine and dandy, and produce something like 260bhp without too much fuss.

 

Okay, so not a unique engine, but what the hell, it'd be an exceptionally nice one, and significantly lighter than my Vauxhall HPC, I'm sure.

 

Wanted: one damaged S2000. For nothing. Will collect...

 

 

 

[Glen]

A friend has an S2000, which I have driven. I'm sure less than half the weight (in a Seven) would make a massive, fundamental, difference but my word do you ever have to REV it to get anything out of it! Literally 7000rpm before anything at all happens.

 

Triples do vibrate more than fours, obviously - but if they did so to an outrageuous degree they simply wouldn't exist. Truimph Trident (and the current Speed Triple) and Laverda Jota (120) engines are regarded as classics because the off-beat nature of the delivery ADDS to the enjoyment. We are all driving cars which put us closer to the sensations of driving, including feedback from the engine, so there's no great harm in principle in a little extra/different vibration.

 

Point is, it's different. It would have texture. Character. Buzzy fours are designed to subtract feel, noise and character. Bike engines have been built in many configurations for all of these reasons, and for me a Seven is more bike-like than car.

[Crudders]

I agree - odd numbered configurations generally make a nice noise. Until recently I had a 155 bhp 5 cylinder 20 valve Fiat Bravo HGT - Brilliant. Would be even better without all the emissions crap. "Fast Arnie" now has a Fiat Coupe with the same engine but turbocharged and putting out 200 odd bhp. Might be interesting, but perhaps a bit on the large side for a seven. Arnie, if you see me taking a tape measure to your car...

 

I could be wrong but as a general rule do you not get a better spread of torque but less ultimate power (i.e. driveability) with fewer cylinders for a given engine capacity? If so a 2 litre triple could be superb.

 

If I'm not mistaken (has beeen known) TVR's current crop of engines was designed by Al Melling - maybe Graham Nearn should have a word?

 

On the subject of Honda engines, I think they have a nasty habit of turning counter clockwise (dunno why, s'pose it seemed like a good idea at the time) so you could end up with 1 forward gear and 5 reverse. I seem to recall an apocryphal tale of a seven owner out there who has done just that.

 

And don't even think about those crap Italian tank jokes or I'll send the cousins round.

 

 

[Simos]

 

There was talk, oh, 10 years or so ago about a company making a bottom end for two Yamaha 1 litre heads making a 2 litre V8 of between 250 and 300 bhp depending on overheads of the bigger bottom (no wife jokes please).

 

I wonder if the afrementioned folks in this column could do a V8 double blackbird or even a 2.6 double hayabusa...

The cross stays in the engine bay of a 7 would be a problem with a V engine unless you could mount it way back toward the bulkhead but maybe borrowing Colin Chapmans original lotus 49/DFV concept and making the engine an integral stressed member of the chassis would work. You'd have to be fairly dedicated to take an angle grinder to the spaceframe of your seven though... :-0

[dogvet]

Honda engines do rotate the opposite way, shame, variable timing an' all that!!

[Mike Bees]

Not all of them! Apparently the S2000 is 'conventional'.

 

Mike

[CHRIS CLARK]

I remember an 'Esprit' look-alike racer at Castle Coombe that had two Yamaha 750 motorcycle engines bolted together using a belt to link them in a 'V' formation. Made a glorious sound and saw of a 500 'Cossie' to win. Best bit was it was two x two 750 two strokes; a 1500cc twostroke with eight tuned pipes out of the back end! Amazing.

 

Would love to know where it ended up; anyone know?

[Red SLR]

Talking of strapping 2 engines together - Aston Martin do this trick with the DB7 Vantage. They got Cosworth to bolt together 2 *Ford* V6 engines.

 

I saw a NICE engine in CCC mag. They had a V6 lump used in hillclimbing, cant remember what make it was but it had over 500hp. Now this engine was small - in fact I think CCC comented on the fact that it was literaly half the size of the older units.

 

R1000 anyone?

 

Slight snag - £25,000 for the engine alone.

 

 

[gareth]

A few people know on this board I bought a crashed S2000 to fit the engine in my Seven.

The engine is very compacted and very light, it has a Magnesium alloy block reinforced with carbon fibre. Mike is correct the S2000 engine is Honda's first which spins the right way. It is the perfect engine for a Seven and will tune to 300 BHP by new cams and mapping.

So what is the problem ?

The VTEC system adds 2 inch to the height and makes the engine too tall.

Solution you need the Mugen dry sump and take the VTEC off and use the BTCC head from Neil Brown Engineering.

 

Just a theory