Grubbster Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 And the plugs are quite rusted in. Soaked in penetrating oil, then attempted the first plug. With very little effort it broke - the centre of the plug (with electrode) has come away clean, leaving the outer threaded bit in the head. What do I do now? ☹️ Trailer it to a garage or can I do something myself? Edited by - grubbster on 29 Dec 2007 12:30:39 Edited by - grubbster on 4 Jan 2008 12:55:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 You still have the hex part to work on with a socket. Perhaps more PlusGas and wait a bit, then use a longer breaker bar. Centre part broke as the socket wasn't dead square to centreline of plug - easy to do. One hand on socket end of bar to hold it central and one slow steady push on the free end of the bar. Amazing what a longer radius will do. I always use CopaSlip on plug threads, and used to remove/refit them (with more CopaSlip) every 6 months or so on old Fords we had, or this can easily happen !! Good luck 7 related photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted December 29, 2007 Author Share Posted December 29, 2007 No sorry, maybe I didn't explain too well. I have the hex bit, that came away with the rest of the plug - I am left with effectively a threaded bush in the spark plug hole, nothing sticking out at all. Looking online this seems to be very common and needs the head off to resolve ☹️ ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tight fart Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Oh 🙆🏻 I only changed the plugs on my daughters KA yesterday. If you only have the threaded part left I guess it's hollow, can you get an easyout in it? Your club membership expires on 1 Jan 2008 ☹️ A7 RDP pics here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyboy Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 *eek*BE CAREFULL if the plug has failed (never seen this ever ) then there is no telling what may have fallen in the cylinder? Bit of ceramics or the centre electrode????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted December 29, 2007 Author Share Posted December 29, 2007 I just tried the easyout but no joy, I didn't want to overdo it and make it even worse. Billyboy - I don't think anything dropped inside, the centre came away complete! According to the stuff I dfound online this is really common and the plugs should be removed regularly and greased to prevent it happening - obviously these never have been (I only bought it last week, privately). Looks like a head off job then off to somewhere to fix all four I think. I've never taken a head off before, should be fun 😔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Taking a head off is easy It's putting it back on again which is fun! Should be relatively easy on a Ka though. Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted December 29, 2007 Author Share Posted December 29, 2007 Well, looking at the state of the other 3 plugs I think they may also break in the same way. There are people around who can repair in situ but I have no idea of the costs. I can buy a recon head for about £150, maybe this is the best route. The engine has done less than 38000 miles, so sticking on a recon head and then servicing properly should see it running for years to come - sounds like I am talking myself into replacing the head (as long as I don't trip or break anything in the process should be straighforward ). I suppose once the head is off it would be easier and cheaper to get the threads sorted as an option. . . . So, I think I will go and see if any other plugs come out, and if they do then see if I can get an in-situ repair done on the 1 thats broken. If they all break, then take the head off and then decide what to do next. Any other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 A nasty problem.... Unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure that nothing has fallen into the cylinder it would be safest to remove the head. If you are sure, can you get any heat to the area and then try again with the easyout. Have you tried any of the other releasing sprays ? Loctite ( ?) do one that freezes the joint I think. For the cost of that it might be worth trying. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 We had this happen a couple of times at my fathers workshop over the years. In both cases it was a head off job. ☹️ One head had to go to a local engineering compay to get the remnants removed. 😔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 And the car was such a bargain 😳 Makes me glad I bought my son an old mini, though still lots of spannering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w7rren Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 This happened to me with a Fiesta 1300 a few years back ( same engine ). I had to take the head off, it then came out easily .... but from the underside of the head. My mrs has a KA, I'm not going to touch the plugs to they fail. Good luck Born again sevener 1st time around back in 1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted December 29, 2007 Author Share Posted December 29, 2007 Update, couldn't budge the other 3 plugs so went for the head removal option. Not going very well so far, the Haynes manual is next to useless - head removal covered in about a page with no relevant photos Of course the exhaust manifold mountings are rusted solid and the inlet manifold inaccessible ☹️ You can't leave the exhaust manifold on as this is part of the cat and it goes down under the car. I have given everything a liberal spray of penetrating oil and I'll get back to it in the morning. I haven't told my daughter yet ☹️ ☹️ I've only gone and broken her Christmas toy Edited by - Grubbster on 29 Dec 2007 17:47:59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Oh DADDY ..... what have you done to my baby !!!!!!! 7 related photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I've just read that the later Ka's had a different head design to help prevent the plugs welding themselves in. That's not very helpful though is it. 🙆🏻 Charles --- My SuperGraduates 2006 diary My SuperGraduates 2005 diary, My Caterham Academy 2004 build and race diary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frying Pan Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 What an 🙆🏻 Steve. Hope you get it sorted soon Guy See some pictures of the build here. 13000 miles completed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j passfield Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I've had this happen on a number of ocassions, never taken the head off though, get a big torx bit or spline bit 1/2 inch drive and drive it into the remains of the plug and then undo it. Just make sure you put each piston on the firing stroke and use an air line to blow out any crap that may have fallen in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djg Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I had this problem on a older fiesta. yes I took the head off and the nice engineering firm next door to my work took the plugs out, but all he used was a little bit of heat on the head around the plugs. Just a thought that maybe the heat can be put on from the top and not the bottom to get the things to shift. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Bet your wife is in a good mood though 😶🌫️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 Morning all! The cavalry is on the way, a good friend of mine is on his way over from the Isle of Wight Between us I'm sure we'll get the head off today. I'll probably go for a recon one and hopefully refit it Weds/Thurs. I think it will be a lot easier going back together - the hard bit stripping it down is getting rusty bolts undone and identifying the parts that the Haynes manual refers to. You can tell that these cars are made to meet a very low budget. I'll probably have one last go at removing the plugs and remnants before I continue the stripdown. On the family front - daughter 1 took the news quite well, sensible lass she'd rather get it sorted properly now than have it fail later when she has passed her test. Daughter 2 thinks it all a little funny that dad broke sis's car. Dear wife - still not over the flu so spending a lot of time asleep - hopefully today she'll have enough energy to keep the supply of bacon butties and coffee going! It is icy outside and not much warmer in the garage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j passfield Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 If you are taking the head off then the repair will be easy, you really don't need an exchange head to overcome this problem. Once the head is off you could remove the blade from a hacksaw, pass it through the body of the plug,refit to saw frame and cut a slot into the plug, remove the blade and then carefully "peel" the body of the plug inwards and free it from the head. Sending the head as it is for exchange you may well have to forfeit part of surcharge, check with the supplier first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 Cheers JP I'll make sure I confirm withthe exchange head people Head is now off, I wasn't able to remove any of the other 3 plugs - they seem to be a permanent fixture in the head - hardly recognisable as spark plugs (as far as the metal bit is concerned - hardly any hex shape left). I prefer working on my 7, everything is much more accessible than in a Ka! Even the engine mount attaches to the head in the Ka and access all around the engine is tight. All connections are designed to be push fit on assembly - some not at all obvious how they release though and Haynes manual just says 'disconnect', so doesn't offer any clues. Hopefully reaasembly will be a lot easier and I'll soon forget the nightmare this has seemed to be. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but how I regret buying this one alreay! Never mind, I had been prepared to spend a little more if the haggling had been tough, so I guess I am just paying that extra now ITSWIM. Thanks for kind words of support, especially Charles 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 That's what I'm here for 😬 Charles --- My SuperGraduates 2006 diary My SuperGraduates 2005 diary, My Caterham Academy 2004 build and race diary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Recon head should arrive tomorrow, I got all the gaskets and new nuts/studs for the exhaust mainfold. About £200 all in, so fingers crossed it will all be sorted by the weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Recon head arrived today Wrong one though ☹️ Fiesta one is not the same as Ka! Not problems getting it refunded but does put me back to where I started 🙆🏻 Old head is now with a local engineering firm who believe they can remove the plugs and rethread if necessary. [fingers crossed smiley] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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