Markie1 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I have recently returned home from a trip to the ring not in my CSR but on a plane, I drove the car all the way over aginst my best judgement ...... Whilst driving to the track from the hotel i turned a corner a gave it some power to find it sounding like a bag of old bolts, although it still would drive i decided that it had a bit of a problem and pulled over, Lots of hassel but got it back to Caterham and told they had spoke to cosworth and would have it stripped down and investegated the problem at the factory. They told me they pulled 4.5 litres of oil from the car and there was a black residue been left in one of the cylinders, They have sinse sent me this report ‘The failed engine has been stripped and inspected. Number 1, 2 and 4 big-end bearing shells have spun on their respective journals resulting in overheating of the connecting rod and catastrophic failure of the bearing shells with significant loss of material. This failure mode is caused by a critical loss of bearing oil pressure. The engine management system has logged a significant number of data points confirming little or no oil pressure across a wide speed range. The scavenge pump and the main oil pressure pump and lubrication system have been inspected and are in full working order. Loss of critical lubricating oil pressure cannot be attributed to mechanical failure of the lubrication system. The most probable cause of loss of critical lubricating oil pressure is failure to maintain the correct engine oil level. Has anyone else had a simular problem with there CSR260 as Caterham are trying to give me a big bill to repair the engine for me ........ I`m feeling bit let down by Caterham so any help would be great, I have had Mark Edwards on the phone telling me that Cosworth are now looking at the problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 When was the last time you checked the oil level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul jacobs Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 CC are aware of at least one other Cosworth engine with similar symptons which they had in last year sometime [or maybe early this year], they said it was down to low oil level in that one too, and sent out an extra long dipstick to all CSR dry sump customers along with a little ditty on how to use it. It wouldn't surprise me if your engine did use a bit of oil, and on the long drive out, it had used more than you realized Unless you did check it frequently of course? A lesson for the rest of us I think 😔 Paul J. Loud pipes save lives, but quiet ones save your hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Sorry to hear that. ☹️ If the Duratec had been so sensitive to oil level then surely someone would have come across this long before now, or is there something unique about the CSR installation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted November 16, 2007 Support Team Share Posted November 16, 2007 It's dry sumped isn't it? If so it should be fairly tolerant of low oil level unless the scavenge pump can't keep up with the pressure pump (alledgedly a problem with the original K series purple pump system). What is the system capacity compared with the 4.5 litres they removed? Did you notice low oil pressure at any time? Yellow SL #32 - member of Drowned Rat Racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie1 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 I had an oil change less than 2000 miles ago at hypierion which they put 5 litres of oil in and i have also topped up with another 1.5 litres since 😔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie1 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 it is dry sumped ............. I am still waiting report from Cosworth to see what they think..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Jeez. If the engine cannot run with 4.5l of oil in it there must be something wrong somewhere!! In theory if there is oil in the tank, i.e the scavenge has done its job and pumped it back, then there should be oil for the main pump, to pump the oil around. The only problem I can see with running too low an oil level with a dry sump is, providing the scavange is pumping faster than the main pump, the oil will get too hot. But hell, my Vx runns about 3.5-4l with no problems thus far. I hope that makes sense. It wil be interesting to hear what cosworth say. If the ECU has logged periods of low pressure, at somepoint the main pump has been starved. 1l differnce in the tank should not be that much of a problem. So it would suggest that the scavenge is not doing its job, or the main pump pick up is not effective enough to keep up with the G loads in corners. IMHO of course. RED 2.0 HPC 230BHP here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie1 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 I only hope Caterham will be in my corner when Cosworth try to get out of it and less face it they are going to try get out of the cost..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daza Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 i have just had my csr 260 serviced at dartford and was advised to check the oil level every week or 500 miles and given the new type dipstick as they use oil please let me know how you get on how much are they asking for the rebuild was also given paperwork on how to check oil and jacking points etc am a bit worried as have only had the car a month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie1 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 Thats very intresting because i have also had the argument that if this is the case i have never been given any owners manual or paper work on owning a CSR..... Great cars when there working but feel let down on the aftersales so my CSR may be getting sold on the back of this ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSR Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Did the 2000 miles since the oil change include any track days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie1 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yes at Spa, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmmarsh Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 daza I didn't get any paperwork on jacking points or how to check the oil - just the normal manual and an engine booklet (3 weeks ago). Not too difficult though. I agree it is bad if you don't know what you are doing though. The CSR is my 2nd 7. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie1 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 just seems strange that since my car went in to them some 5-6 weeks ago they have now got paperwork on oil pressure and level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daza Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 the orange car on pistonheads which was sold when i was looking had a new engine .i heard that was down to a trip to the south of france and a lack of oil i was also told to fill with oil until breathed into catch tank not sure if that is right can you say how old and how many miles yours had done . how many where track miles .the engine must be fit for the purpose when i asked cc about the 260 engine i was told they were very strong with no problems then this happens hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie1 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 My car was march 07 and had been sold back to Caterham due to loss of licence and i bought it in july, i have only done around 2500 miles since then and done 2 track days in that time. The car is only 7 months old when this has happened ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daza Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 thats no miles .this is my 3rd 7 a hpc then a blackbird surley they will give you a new engine foc i was looking forward to doing a few track days but maybe they are not up to the stress / what oil presure was your car running before this happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Brother Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 i was looking forward to doing a few track days but maybe they are not up to the stress Makes a bit of a mockery of the "Built for racing - designed for living" strap line Hopefully Caterham will sort it out for you. Steve SE7EN-UP! Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie1 Posted November 17, 2007 Author Share Posted November 17, 2007 I hope Caterham do sort the problem for me, the oil pressure was always good before this happened and i did not notice a drop in pressure before it stopped working, will post on here and let everyone know how cc handle this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickbowyer Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 If you look in the Warranty section of the owners handbook, CC also say "If the vehicle is used for competition or any track based activity, the warranty becomes invalid". Does that mean a track day will invalidate the warranty? Seems odd as the car is sold as "King of trackdays". Dick Superlight SV Duratec R400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudlow Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 How many miles had the car done overall, prior to the problem ? Also, using the new long dipstick, how far over the top of the flat mark on it would be required to make it spit into the catch tank, and will it only spit into the tank after a hard run ? Can overfilling cause a problem in itself ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daza Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Not sure how high up dipstick before spits into catch tank. was told to fill it up go for a blat and will blow excess into catch tank thats before i had the new dipstick. have just checked mine with new dipstick and it shows just above the bottom mark thats about 100miles after service so going to get some oil ? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Mine was previously overfull - the oil was about 1" below the machine mark at the TOP of the dip stick. Catch tank was 3/4 full! Checked with CC and did an oil change, refilling with about 4.75 litres of oil. Level now sits about 1.5" above the 'full' marker on the dip stick. No blow out into catch tank. This is post modine fitment by CC, so they have refilled the oil to what i assume to be the correct level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudlow Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Get that oil in quick Daza !! I'm going to give mine an extra glug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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