Trackday Virgin

[Andyzzz]

I own a standard 1996 K-series caterham supersport and will be attending my first trackday organised by Wheeltorque at Hethel on the 1st of June. I have a few questions and would appreciate any assistance.

 

Firstly, am I likely to experience brake fade given my inexperience and the type of test track. If this is the case, is there anything I can do to avoid this, i.e. different type of brake pads (I would prefer not to fit 4-pot brake calipers at this stage).

 

Secondly, I have noticed going round long right hand bends that the engine sounds "tappety" and remains so for some time afterwards. Eventually this noise dissapears. Is this due to oil surge causing oil starvation to the hydraulic cam followers and more importantly is this damaging especially when attending trackdays. Is there anything I can do to minimise this problem (a dry sump is not an option at the moment).

 

Finally, is it important/necessary to have insurance at trackdays. If so, can anyone suggest who to go to and approximately how much this may cost.

[ian crocker]

Here's a little story that you probably won't read about in CCC. At the last Castle Combe Action Day a TVR experienced brake failure and ploughed straight into the side of a Citroen Saxo. Both cars were probably write-offs. Neither driver had insurance and the Saxo driver was obviously very distressed...

 

Ian

[ashaughnessy]

Can't answer your question about the tappetty sound.

 

I wouldn't worry about brake fade. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't but if it does, so what? The key is not to exceed your or your car's capabilities until you know what those capabilities are. If you're throwing it round and then get surprised when your brakes suddenly seem not to be working as well as you need them to be coming full blast into a tight corner, then you'll have an accident. Sorry, I don't mean to sound to melodramatic but I think it's important to build up gradually. Go slowly (relatively) to start with and build up gradually. This way you'll be going faster at the end of the day than if you start the day balls out.

 

If you do find the brakes are getting too hot, do a couple of slow laps and let everything cool down, engine, brakes, tyres, etc. Potter around the track at 60 and everything will have a chance to get a breath back, including yourself. While you're doing this, think about your approach to each corner. Then when you speed up again, you'll probably improve a bit. Watch out for other drivers though, if you're going slowly. Make sure you're not in anyone's way coming into the bends.

 

If you want to do anything mechanical to the brakes to avoid it, make sure you have good fresh brake fluid (I think I use DOT 5.1) and find out what brake pads you have. Read through the archives to see what people recommend (green stuff, Mintex 1144, Pagid, etc).

 

As for insurance, who knows. I've never had insurance. I asked for a quote once. It was a ridiculous amount. So far I haven't needed it, so I've saved money. I'll leave it up to you to decide if I'm being stupid or wise. Only time will tell.

 

Anthony

[1400rs_0of30]

You've chosen a reputable track day company for your first day..good choice. I was new to the scene last year, and recommend the following:

 

1. Dont go nuts when you first get out there, it takes time to get to know your individual car.

2. Make sure you pay close attention to tyre pressure and oil level, all day, not just in the morning

3. Its not a race, so don't try and keep up with the guy in front of you, chances are you cant..sounds harsh but its reality.

4. Learn the lines, watch the other cars etc

5. After you've been out once, and experienced the track itself, i'd get some instruction, if you have to pay for it then who cares, the money will be well spent. Every new track i go to i get some tuition.

6. Have fun!

 

 

The original 1400 K Series Roadsport Prototype

 

My Caterham Website

[Drumster]

I agree with everthing above especially point 5.

 

I went to Cadwell yesterday and felt fairly intimidated by the cicuit during the 1st session especially as it was a bit damp in places etc. Barry suggested a session with the ARDS instructor. Result; the best £15 and 20 minutes I've had in my 7.

 

With an intercom the instructor was able to calmly talk through the lines and gear changes and within a few laps he had me driving with confidence and speeds that I didn't think I'd be comfortable with. I can honestly say that for the first time in 3 years of ownership I really began to find out what the 7 is capable of.

 

As a result of that 2nd session with an instructor I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the day, safe in the knowledge that I knew what I was doing.

 

Chris Alston

 

Se7ening - it's all miles and smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif

1800 Supersprint - Loud and Proud teeth.gif ...well it only sounds fast officer blush.gif

[Paul Ranson]

Brake fade is extremely unlikely. Don't worry about it.

 

The tappety symptom can (and should) be ameliorated by fitting an 'Oil-Air Separator' (AKA Apollo tank, and erroneously 'Anti-cavitation tank'). These are roughly £200 and there is much information here on Blatchat regarding fitting and usage.

 

Ensure you have sufficient oil in the sump. Check immediately after switching off, and make sure you use the side of the dipstick nearer the centre of the car as the datum.

 

Paul

[Jam Mad]

oooo chris.. it's downhill from here on in... tongue.gif

[RogNeedham]

Went to Cadwell on 27th April - this was my first trackday. I have a 1700xflow and noticed no fade at all. As the other guys have said take as much advice / instruction as possible - take it steady at first and don't get too confident at the end of the day. I know my confidence overtook my ability in the last hour during the open pit lane - great fun but risky.

 

Insurance - I took some out with Footman James and it cost £70.00. Expensive yes - but not in relation to side-swiping your motor. It's a risk for the individual to assess.

 

Keep an eye on the water / oil / brake levels etc and enjoy - it beats decorating on a Saturday!!!

 

Rog

[Geoff Johnson]

Re the tappety sound. Overfill the car slightly. I have heard that the dip stick is the original one for the engine, but then Caterhams have s smaller sump. Certainly my VX suffers with tappet noise if the oil level is low, or when dipstick shows full & the engine is cold or recently thrashed. Overfilled it is fine

 

Geoff

[scooby dooby doo]

brake fade is highly unlikely for a number of reasons.

1) its not got huge airfield style straights

2) i presume you have a windscreen - lots of aerobraking there

3) as its you're first day i guess you havn't been seduced by very sticky tyres

4) as its you're first time you'll quite likely find that only 5 or so laps at a time is enough to wear you out and you'll want to come in, have a think, calm down, relax etc. the worst thing you can do is still be worrying about a corner as you start the next. if in doubt slow down, do and in lap and worry about it in the pits.

 

FWIW the only time i've ever had brake fade was on the second of two days at an airfield track (so i had my braking points well nailed) where once a minute for 45 minutes i was braking from 110 to 30. with an aeroscreen and 32s.

 

the tappety symptoms are more worrying. if this is happening on the road i suggest there is something wrong. have you got enough oil in the car? The apollo will help (by ensuring the oil in the head is bubble free) and is probably necessary if you start etiing sticky tyres. dry sumps are only necessary at acb10 or slicks i would have said.

 

oh yes - enjoy yourself there!

 

Dave Hooper - North London

dmch2@lineone.net

[millsn]

The tappety sound is air in the oil. You need an apollo tank which lets the oil rest for a bit and the air floats out if it whilst it rests, ah, how nice!

 

You won't get brake fade unless you're a real hooligan.

 

Before you go check your pds have some meat on them and ensure your wheelnuts are at the correct torque. Do this after the day too. Take a pressure gauage and footpump with you and pump your tyres slightly harder then normal (say 22 psi on 185/60s).

 

Check your oil level is ok. Check you water level is ok. Check all your levels. Try super unleaded for extra safety if you feel cautious some engine builders recommend it for the track. get your wheelbearings checked before going on the track and get them adjusted if needed.

 

Take it a bit easy on your first outing. If it's fr, go B&B the night before - you'll be knackered at the end of the next day. Take a spare and go in convoy if possible.

 

Nigel Mills - 2.0 Zetec carbs

[ashaughnessy]

About the insurance thing, £70 doesn't sound like much but what is the excess? A quote I got once had about £750 excess. You'd have to do quite a lot of damage for it to cost you £750. It's all a balance between cost and risk, though.

Anthony

[ECR]

Chris Alstons comment "I can honestly say that for the first time in 3 years of ownership I really began to find out what the 7 is capable of" strikes a chord with me.

 

I think that if at all possible every Seven owner should try to do one trackday even if it is their only one. Exploring the limits of ANY Seven on the roads is just not possible.

[Tim Sture]

I did speak to someone at Curborough last year who had experienced brake fade/failure in his 1.6 Vx classic (I think the fluid boiled) which resulted in several k's damage to the car. Fortunately he was insured, but I would not want to gurantee that fade cannot happen. It's never happened to my car (an Academy Vx 1600 8v) but it might depend on the fluid used as well as pads etc.

[Paul Ranson]

Fluid boiling is rather different to brake fading. I think fade is highly unlikely on any road going Caterham driven by an amateur at a 'track day'. But if your fluid is old or has a low boiling point you may experience problems. I once cooked fairly fresh (less then 6 months) DOT5 at Curborough. The brakes were fitted with Mintex 1136 compound and didn't fade. This is a stop from 80 to 25 every 30 seconds, which is pretty heavy duty.

 

The difficulty is that in theory you should treat your track day Caterham the same as a racing car, change the fluid for each event, spanner check every couple of sessions, 'life' various wearing parts, etc. In practice it's not necessary for irregular track use.

 

Anyway if the original poster has any doubts about his brakes he should service them, otherwise he should overfill with oil and go and learn about driving.

 

Paul

[Snapper]

I would suggest fitting an anti-cavitation tank & if your car is older than 6 months you might need the engine restraint mounts. Both of these items aren't that expensive for what they do to protect your car.

 

The standard brakes are fine for track days but if you are worried about the condition of the pads, change them & have the brakes bled which is also fairly cheap.

 

It is important that the first time you go out, you have someone with experience to show you the ropes, the lines, braking points & any other helpful tips.

 

You will find that if there is an experienced 7 driver there, they will always help out an inexperienced owner.

 

Whenever you book a trackday check to see what other cars will be going 'cos the last one I did had old F1 cars as well & it scares the hell out of you when they scream up & overtake you in mid menouvre.

 

Best of luck

 

Mo (Missus Snapper)

 

Edited by - Snapper on 12 May 2002 10:38:01

[FH]

My trackday experiences only started last year ... a baptism of fire in an R500 eek.gif

 

As it was patently obvious that the car's capabilities far outweighed the driver's at that stage, I

 

1. started slowly to warm up the brain as well as the car

2. took proper instruction

3. used my mirrors vigilantly so that I kept out of the way of the faster guys (No comments thank you Slipperman wink.gif

4. made sure that I didn't overdo it. Coming into the paddock part-way through your session is not shameful

5. used the final lap to cool down brain and car

6. Did all the necessary checks suggested by others

 

Although it may sound an expensive exercise, I'd recommend anyone to at least consider taking along a 'personal tutor' - maybe shared between two or three people, rather than relying on being able to bag the lone instructor for 15 minutes or so early in the day.

 

You then have the chance to also learn by watching the instructor's techniques (which isn't usually possible if you only have one slot with him). As well as being instructive, it's also a tremendous confidence-booster. By the end of the summer, I felt completely "at one" with the car thumbsup.gif and came away from the three track days on Le Sept with the accolade of "best improver" from the instructors and marshals - which kinda makes you feel that you've achieved something smile.gif

 

In the long term, £250's worth of instruction could well prove far less expensive than getting over-confident and being drawn into a red mist situation.

 

The forces being placed on the car on a track far outweigh what (the majority of) people would do on the road - I was amazed at the extra speed I was capable of eventually carrying into the corners and the tyre walls didn't look half so daunting. I doubt if I'd have had the confidence to push myself so far without the day with Michael Caine and the subsequent sessions with Rob Jenkinson and Austin Kinsella

 

Have fun biggrin.gif

 

FH

 

 

 

[murph7355]

Some top tips above. A couple of other points that might be worth noting:

 

If you think you're suffering brake fade or any other maladies, ease off and come in at the next opportunity. This'll give you and the car time to cool off and you can also have a quick check round the car to make double sure nothing's fallen off etc. I wouldn't cruise round slowly for a bit - you become a mobile chicane and it might not cure the problems you have.

 

And IIRC track day insurance does not cover the third party's damage. So if you smack someone else, your repairs are likely to be covered but the car you hit isn't.

 

It's for this reason that I don't bother with insurance on track days - if it covered me for pranging someone else I'd be more inclined to take insurance, but as it doesn't, the risks are still all yours really (especially with the premiums they charge). If this is the case, it'd be handy if trackday organisers and insurers made it VERY clear, as I'm sure a lot of people go on track days not fully realising this.

 

That said, it's a track day so you shouldn't be getting into situations where you touch another car. Bear this in mind at all times, be sensible and you'll be fine. They're fun days out and getting the last tenth out of you and the car should not be the objective.

 

 

[tony pashley]

With regard to your brake concerns, Andyzzz...

If you're ok with them normally, then just make sure they work, than you have fluid and a good amount of pad left (and bleed them if you feel it's necessary).

You may well be using the brakes harder than you ever have before - so as others have said, build up your pace steadily, in case the car is a touch less stable than you thought when you first do what would amount to an emergency stop in normal 'sane' road driving.

 

If you are driving quick enough and forcefully enough (on your first track day) to precipitate serious braking deficiencies, then you will doubtless be caught out by some other spectacular 'event' before that became a problem. Don't park up with your hand brake on when you come off the track, and be mindful of the pedal feeling soggy if you go out again a little while later - it usually 'comes back' after a few of applications.

 

Most important of all - take it steady and enjoy yourself. Go home happy and in one piece and gagging for more - not bemused and frightened and discouraged. You'll be at the Nurburgring in no time!