Stationary M25 Traveller Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Without seeing it - I guess a large rivet would cover a lot of sins - especially if not in full view ! 7 related photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 You have a choice of using a bigger rivet (been there, done that ) or using a MIG welder to close the hole up before grinding it flat and redrilling. Arch can do this for you or you can DIY but as you might imagine it's not very quick or easy unless you do it when the chassis is stripped down. My experience of drilling rivets and tilting the drill to stop the rivet spinning is that you tend to break a lot of drill bits. ☹️ Carry spares. I buy the sets of drills you can get for a few quid everywhere and you can tell which ones I use most as these are the ones missing. Like Brent I don't get too excited about the exact size - I have substituted imperial for metric drills on a number of occasions when I had to. In any case a handheld 4mm drill bit will seldom produce a 4.0mm hole, and if you are drilling a clearance hole or something to take a rivet or self tapper it's not critical. It matters a bit more when you are cutting threads but even then the engineering textbooks will give you different hole sizes depending on whether you want a nice easy thread that will allow a nut to spin up and down or a slight interference fit that will be shakeproof. All work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Arch will resolve all problems such as overlarge rivet holes caused by ham-fisted builders and, depending on the level of work you have asked them to do, return your chassis literally looking like new. That is the beauty of these little cars. No matter how old or how bad the condition, everything can be brought back to 'as new' relatively cheaply. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Jack Flash In order to avoid all these problems with rivets, has anybody considered to replace them with another fastener system (grub screws, rivnuts + screws, ...) or at least at the locations where it is very difficult to work (end and bottom of the footwells, ...) ? I wondered the same thing, as the knee plates on mine are secured with screws rather than rivets along the tip edge of the skin. Why not the whole footwell, or is there a reason? Alex McDonald A loud 1700 SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I would think that the knee plates are secured by screws so that you can take them out and get to the wiring/switches behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 How do you get at the rivets that hold the rear bulkhead in position. My car has lots it the middle but 3 on each side of the car at the extreme edge of the plate. Looks like they were put in before the sideskins went on. Is this a case of "chisel them off and then re-drill new holes that you can put new rivets into without trashing the sideskins" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted November 12, 2007 Leadership Team Share Posted November 12, 2007 I used a chisel on the 3 each side - new holes then drilled and rivets fitted from the front. The ends are hidden by the "quadrant" panels anyway. BTW there's nearer 700 rivets if you include the floors as well Stu. www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK FLASH Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Alextangent, I' m not quite sure what you mean with knee plates, but I suppose that these are horizontal interior plates under the dashboard. I' ve got a 1987 chassis and there is no sign of plates like this; there is free access to the wiring and back of the dashboard and scuttle. The only interior panels in my car are the ones at the cockpit sides. After sitting in the car yesterday evening, I' m now convinced that these interior panels (some sort of cardboard covered with vinyl) are not critical for the rest of the chassis. At this moment I suppose that a convenient way of attaching them to the chassis tubes could be a combination of double sided tape, velcro, ... with small grub screws to fill the holes of the rivets. With this method, it would be very simple to remove them if necessary and they would still be firmly attached to the chassis tubes. Remarks or ideas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted November 13, 2007 Leadership Team Share Posted November 13, 2007 These panels are aluminium covered in vinyl. Although they aren't as important as the panels either side of the tunnel, they will add some rigidity to the chassis. My choice would be to clean the grot trap, treat with wax, and rivet the panels back in place. Stu. www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 As Stu says, the interior panels are coated aluminium and will add some stiffness so I would definitely rivet them back in place. The knee trims weren't fitted to all cars as standard (my last 7 didn't have them to start with) so that is why yours may not be so fitted either. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I can't think what they're called really, but Knee plates = the section of vinyl covered ali between the dashboard and the inside skins (next to your right knee on the driver's side, left knee passenger side, have about a 45 degree tilt on them, make up the drop part of the dashboard). On my 93 they're screwed in with self tappers on the top edge of the inner skin and bottom edge of the knee plate; they float free at the dashboard level. The inner skins are in two parts (footwell to rear of the cockpit, and then rear of the cockpit up to the top of the wheel arch). Could they be screwed back in, rather than riveted? I can't see how that would compromise the structural integrity? I don't have panels on the transmission tunnel on mine (live axle); it's a round section ali U shape, heavily riveted into the floor panel. Looks very structural, and I won't be going anywhere near it! Alex McDonald A loud 1700 SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK FLASH Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I learned something new about a Seven : the interior panels are made of aluminium. But as Alextangent I also suppose that screwing these panels back in will not have any effect on the chassis itself. Anyone else out there who thinks the same or can explain why we are wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The ally panels do stiffen the chassis. How much is debatable because of the complexity of the loads in different parts and the fact that pop riveting is a pretty rubbish method of attachment. By way of analogy you can imagine that if you nailed together a square window frame it would be easy to turn it into a diagonal by pushing opposite corners. Glaze it and it becomes a rigid square. This does not help the stiffness in the other direction though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Ive just started taking the LHS inside panel off today. Problem Ive found is that for some reason the rivet that holds on the door stud is steel & my drills are making little progress! Nearly all the others are out except for a few spinners which Ill try with the chisel. Any bright ideas for steel rivets? It the crux of problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 A hard steel drill (HSS) will sort out any steel rivet. If it fails try a sharp chisel, or punch the central pin through with a small punch (nail at a push) which will allow you to drill the annealed soft steel mushroom part of the rivet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Holding ali panels in place with well tightened self tapping screws would probably not compromise the stiffening effect on the chassis. However, personally I would not for the following reasons: Adds extra weight over rivets (ali or steel) Takes longer to fit them Looks untidy (black rivets look original and neat) Even black coated screws can start to rust in the crosshead where the screwdriver damages the coating Holes in chassis will get narled by the screw thread cutting into the metal May be alright first time, but second time screws may not bite and start to turn in holes (stripped threads) Screws may rust in and snap when being undone - hard to drill out a broken s/t screw Yes some of the above issues can be aleviated with Waxoyl, but overall I don't think screwing panels to be an elegant solution. 6SpeedManual *tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted November 19, 2007 Leadership Team Share Posted November 19, 2007 Problem Ive found is that for some reason the rivet that holds on the door stud is steel & my drills are making little progress! Tom - the steel rivets that Caterham use are quite hard. For steel use the drill at high speed, for ally run it slow to medium. You'll get there with the steel, just have patience and make sure the drill bit remains sharp. Don't forget that you'll need "flat head" (c/sunk) ally rivets to refit the poppers. I have some spare if you don't have any. Stu. www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Some practical experience here from taking the rear suspension turrets and the rear cockpit inner skins off over the weekend. 1. 1/4" chisel is fine for where rivets enter chassis tubes, as the tube holds the ali firm while walloping with a mallet. But on sheet to sheet, best drilled, as the ali will deform and create oversize holes. Go slow, don't try and take the head off in a single blow. 2. The vinyl skin on the cockpit panels is pretty fragile, so I stopped using a chisel and used a drill for a cleaner finish. I've ended up with a few marks on the vinyl, but I think a couple of dabs of black paint will cover up OK. 3. Bent ali is pretty malleable (yes, I managed to deform a piece 🙆🏻); I used a flat surface (workbench) and a round surface (round wooden ball off an old bed head) to gently knock the turrets back into perfect shape with a mallet . 4. CC's black rivets are tough ! Tried putting in a couple of test pop rivets, and these guys take a huge amount of force for the spindle to snap. 5. I chiseled the excess of exposed rivets before knocking the end back through into the tubes; leaves only a small amount of rivet to rattle about. Alex McDonald A loud 1700 SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Those "tough" rivets are the proper ones for the job. Softer rivets which are sold in car accessory shops are not the right spec and my loosen over time in the areas where they do experience stress. The hard ones are tough to fit by hand which is why (further up this thread IIRC) the use of an air powered rivetter is recommended. 6SpeedManual *tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬 Edited by - 6speedmanual on 19 Nov 2007 13:09:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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