Bilbo Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hi all Well I not seeking to pass any negative comment , everything needs a change now and then but near one year on what did you all think about the effect on the club sprint series. Personally I missed the lot, the problems with me feet are a lot better but at times if I stood ‘still’ too long you could still stick a pin in them and I would never know as long as I am moving their now not a problem, never a problem when driving as long as I not been standing still Whatever…I am still hoping to be back next year. So with no slight to Mark's changes in the Regs and more in the light of the fact I missed all the chit chat in the pits what's everyone’s opinion. Oh I am hoping to be at Brands Hatch on Saturday as spectator in the tin top err with a folding chair, anyone else going 🤔 if so please say hello 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 in reality I think the same people would have won, with whatever scoring system we used being based against who comes first not what was in effect 2nd makes sense I am a little concerned that (and if i think i understand what is planned) for next year that the plan is to score based upon 2007 scores and have potential to score more than 100 if you beat that time, becuase it causes some anomolies...you are in effect racing against who did/didn't turned up the previous year and the prevailing weather conditions of that year, rather than the on the day competition which IMO should be what success should be based upon... also we continue to reward mediocraty, where supposedly faster (more hp, grip) classes are slower than supposedly lower specced cars and yet awarding them similar points rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Happy Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I have an idea TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Happy Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 OK Rob brings up a very intresting points. As for the class records its easy if a class below has a better class record, that should be the point against which times are measured for both classes. so if a class 4 record is quicker than class 5 the class 4 record should be the one that class 5 needs to beat to gain any extra points. TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I think you've chosen the wrong classes for the analogy TM 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Mr Mediocarcy here.... I share Rob's concerns with scores being bassed on % of the class record for the hill. This basically means that if an event is wet (and the class record is a dry one) it isn't worth you running. The times you will be able to set will be so much lower than the hill record that unless you only do 7 events you will be dropping the score so in some ways why risk the car by competing at all. Now, if we have a year with 50% wet events you will need to include some wet times, but if only a few wet events no one who will be hoping to do well in overall champs will use those times. So I strongly feel we should NOT base scores on class records. I think times should be based on % of winner for class on the day, like this year, with small bonus available based on beating the hill record. As for the suggestion that class 4 should use class 3 records where class 3 times were faster.... (don't be shy TM.... say what you think) that is opening up a large can of worms. In some conditions/hills you could well argue that the lower power cars are as fast/faster due to ease of driving. Plus hill records were set this year in competition with cars within that class. Woudn't you think someone would have been a little stupid to push to post the fastest possible time they possibly could in the last run of the day when they had already beaten others in their class for the day??? So waht is their winning time was slower than a lower class. That only counts for bar-room bragging not for scoring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattj Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I also agree that class records shouldnt come into the scoring, as it keeps everything fair for those on the day, and also makes things a lot less confusing. Sure, the percentage system has led to a few tied scores at the top, but theres no cash prizes so im not going to complain 😬 As class records are sort of a bragging thing, maybe those who break one are awarded a mini 'skull n crossbones' type sticker to put on the side of the car's cockpit -like the fighter pilots when they register a kill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 oh yeah forgot to say , it was much easy doing the scores than the year before so i am all for keeping it the same as it makes my life sooooo much simpler rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Neil intreasting thoughts. I am planning on doing class 4 next year as it seams to be an easy option. The class records as slow and should be beatable with little effort. The only thing i am unsure about is if i should do any upgrades on the engine. Looking at Adrian's times this year I still have a lot of time to make up. As for class 3 cars being ease to drive you might be right as i have no experance of a higher powered 7. I found my 59.04 round Curborough was very easy. I think all you can do is race agaist who ever is in your class on that day. Why push it if you do not have to. But if we go of class records for next year then class 4 is the class to go for. however before i make my mind up i will see if the regs and point system changes. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I don't like using class records as a way of topping up scores to avoid the situation where we potentially have multiple drivers on max points. If you get one driver thrashing a record because last year's time was wet (or the winning driver happened to be a girls blouse but nobody else turned up ) it does not mean that he necessarily drove 'better' than someone who won a wet event but didn't break last years record. Still, it's not racing and it's not about fairness, and at least the current system will stop multiway draws. As time goes on, we'll have more dry class records to aim for which will stop drivers getting huge top-ups becasue the time to aim for is a wet time. Or is the record bonus capped in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I think you are all missing the reason for Bilbo's post what did you all think about the effect (of the changes to regs) on the club sprint series (this year) Any discussion about the points system, regs changes for next year will be dealt with on other threads I will start nearer to the date of the Tech forum Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Hmm..well, I'd say it was a shame more people didn't have a go! The new regs open things up for a lot more cars to be competative but I think there's been a downturn in numbers in all classes of competition this year... Class 4 was poorly supported...there are lots of R3/400's out there and lightly modified cars that would fit in nicely with this class.... Class 1 seems to be dwindling, but I guess there are less and less eligible cars in this class as time goes on. Class 2 & 3 seemed to work much as usual! Overall...apart from a few people protesting about the rule changes ref ACB10's and not competing, it's been a great year! Dannyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Happy Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Dannyboy ACB10's do not go there *nono* *nono* Edited by - TM on 18 Oct 2007 14:40:31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 apart from a few people protesting about the rule changes ref ACB10's and not competing Big babies could always have gone in class 6........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I think the scoring worked better for the ladies. However, now being in a class with Griff and Simon Rogers has made it near on impossible to achieve the the same scores I got last year, even though I'm going faster (well ...sometimes!!). Having said that I much prefer having two other competitive ladies in my class, than none!! Edited for huge gaff Edited by - WindyCat on 18 Oct 2007 17:45:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted October 18, 2007 Support Team Share Posted October 18, 2007 Sticking to the point, I don't think the rule changes actually altered things much for this year other than reduce the class 4 field. The upside to that was an improvement in the class 5 field. The switch to radials only didn't change much as all the top runners used soft Kumhos,but I think it has removed a perceived barrier to entry. I guess it will take a while for newcomers to join and swell the class 4 ranks - maybe some class 3 people moving up will even things out a bit. The scoring is simpler and easier to understand and seems to have removed some of the wild inconsistencies (like my 20.5 points at Wiscombe last year!). Whatever, it was a great season and Gill and I will both be back next year. I'll be fighting it out at the bottom of the table in class 5! p.s. Lynda - hasn't Kate won the ladies this year? Yellow SL #32 - member of Drowned Rat Racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Lynda As Shaun says, the ladies title went to Kate this year - and well deserved it was too I agree that the scoring was fairer though and enabled a much closer competition between people in quite different cars Other aspects felt very similar to previous years for me in Class 3 ('cept I was a bit quicker this year 😬) Tam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 In some conditions/hills you could well argue that the lower power cars are as fast/faster due to ease of driving. Plus hill records were set this year in competition with cars within that class. Woudn't you think someone would have been a little stupid to push to post the fastest possible time they possibly could in the last run of the day when they had already beaten others in their class for the day??? So waht is their winning time was slower than a lower class. That only counts for bar-room bragging not for scoring... rotflmaf priceless 😬 here is C7 TOP Taffia rear gunner Edited by - D J on 18 Oct 2007 19:12:28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 The HP classes seem to work out well, with I think most people being honest ? Did the stewards have to have a 'quiet word' with anyone re their straightline speeds from the speedtrap data ? Edited by - Graham Perry on 18 Oct 2007 23:37:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 Well I have finally worked out why I have not seen/read little I am still looking on the old site where there is nothing for 2007 I have just changed it in 'my favourites' Well there was 90 of you lot this year which has to be said is more than a fair turn out and would over fill some events. Oh cheers Mark, I read the first few and thought typical 😬 The un-stated part of my post was did you get more numbers as you wished and was it more competitive 🤔 Well the first seems no BUT what a year for weather and that would put some off that may have joined in later the second seems to be yes This posting was never intended to open any old can of worms and those few of the 90 give the change the Shaun_E.... "scoring worked better for the ladies" sorry old son that’s a fact of life 😳 Anyway I am rather hoping to be back in fine fettle next year bit of a bummer year for me , they still not worked out why in fact all test so far say I am in good health still its just slowly going away as has happened before and I missed the 50th as well *thumbdown*for the same reason, took a late holiday instead So if I am back, as ever coming last, I can now rely on claim lowest or near lowest engine output in group 5, works for me and hopefully I am never ever going to swap my beloved BD All of last years diff etc plans were put on hold they are just not needed unless I am back. Ps Graham I thought we all did this to avoid those and I would have hoped we were all gentlemen sprinters here till the lights go green. Anyway giving variable grearing what would it clearly prove anyway 🤔 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Bilbo Sorry to hear that your still not a 100% and I hope you return to full fitness soon. If you want we could always see if there is a personal trainer in the club who can get you back to your previous levels of fitness a la Lewis Hamilton 😬 Anyway in general and considering this is the first season after a significant change in the class structure, I think it has worked. Class 4 is still in its early days however, there were some good close competition in this class for owners who previously would not have been competitive under the old structure. In addition, it has made class 5 much more competitive with four different class winners this year. In class 5 if your not at the top of your game you do not win (better not mention Pembrey & Llys y Fran just in case Simon reads this thread ) I think the change in the tyres to radials has worked and have not detracted from the driving experience. The fact that they are half the price of a set of ACB10's will help with peoples budgets in the years to come. It will also mean that new competitors will not have to change the set up to their cars. We had more novices and ladies in the championship which is good to see the only downside being smaller entries at Curborough although this did allow us to have three timed runs. Other championships have suffered with smaller entries and may be this is a sign of people tightening their belts. A number of regulars went off to do other things, Brodie, Darren & Rachel, Jez, Simon and Graham Ford spent his season rebuilding his engine when he wasn't marshalling at Curborough. That said a number of new regulars have joined the fold and the social side is goes from strength to strength. Any changes to the regs for next year will be minimal and will be debated at the Tech Forum. The calendar is coming together for next season with hopefully we will have 2 or 3 new venues to try out. Anyway that's my view and the main thing is there were lots of people enjoying themselves both in and out of the car Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 DJ, glad I can provide amusement for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S. Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I agree with Neil, the only reason the class 3 cars are sometimes quicker is because they have less power 😬 Dave WTF is "rotflmaf". It's not on my list of MLA's Class 4 Zetec ....and suffering withdrawal symptons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I know I'm a bit dim, but what does 'rotflmaf' mean? no definition on Google ☹️. I can guess that Neil doesn't think it's funny Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 And I must type faster...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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