Chassis damage advice needed (again)

[Terry Field]

Following an argument with a tyre wall last year which resulted in a new wing, some longer term damage has occurred. The car is a '96 XFlow with flares and the wing stays are attached to the chassis by being bolted through a clamp. The clamp is welded partly to the top side chassis member which runs the length of the engine bay, and the cruciform tubes which cross in front of the engine. The clamp has now pulled straight off the chassis tubes leaving 2 large holes, see below. This isn't the weld breaking, it has actually cracked the steel of the tube and pulled it out.

 

I'm talking to Bruce at Arch on Wednesday, but would appreciate any views in the meantime, expecially about the amount of strip down that might be needed and, inevitably the cost.

 

Oh yes - I might be looking for a lift to Cambridge

 

See pictures 1-8: here

 

1700XF - Team Lotus with flares.

[I.Mupferit]

What a coincidence, that is exactly the same damage as has occurred to Michael Calverts car and now resulting in he & Tam deciding to rebuild the car (see his thread just a few below this one)

 

If you don't want to go to that extent, I would have thought it possible to de-rivet the sideskin at the top and pull it back over the chassis rail to give sufficient room to weld a repair. Looking at the very same damage on Michaels car last weekend I would say it seems quite possible to do it this way if that is how you want to tackle it.

 

Brent

 

2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive

R 417.39 😬

 

Edited by - Brent Chiswick on 24 Sep 2007 22:47:20

[Irrelevant]

You're right Brent . . . it's possible to peel the sideskin back - they do this for long fronts if the panels are OK. Just a case of removing rivets(easiest way is with a sharp chisel IMO) and carefully peeling the skin back. Then it's just a case of cleaning the powder coat off and taking it to Arch for repair - which will take them very little time as it's a simple repair. Most likely a Saturday morning, while you wait, £150 minimum fee job(although £150 seems a bit much, maybe they will do it for less - you'd have to ask).

[Terry Field]

Adam, Brent

 

That sounds like good news. I was concerned in case it was not possible to effect a sufficiently strong weld.

 

I saw the thread about Michaels car but I don't feel sufficiently confident myself to peel back the skin, but at least now I know that it is an option, it is something which I can discuss with Arch.

 

Thanks

 

Terry

 

1700XF - Team Lotus with flares.

[Mcalvert]

Crikey - yes, almost exactly the same break as on ours. I did speak with Bruce at the 50th who confirmed that he had had "4 or 5" similar cases over the years.

 

Certainly said that it could be satisfactorily fixed on a Saturday. However, I know that he's on a week's holiday this week - i'd give him a call next week to discuss.

 

Regards - Michael.

[KeithT]

Had the same problem on my 90 Super Sprint. Evidence of wing stay bracket repair on the nearside when I bought the car in April. With the Taffia Mega Blat looming the offside wing started flapping around as the bracket that side had broken with holes in the side member and diagonal. I had a fabricator carry out the repair. He welded a plate over the holes which then formed a platform for a new bracket made from a bit of tube and a couple of bolts.

We completed the Blat and the while the bracket isnt elegant it seems to be holding well and will hopefully last until I can arrange a complete rebuild.

Was wondering if this problem was more common with clams. Maybe air between the wheel/wing stresses the braket?

 

 

[Rishy]

Same thing happened to me 93 Super Sprint, decided it was time for an upgrade so got it fixed by Bruce at Arch (great bloke). New suspension picks and widetrack *smile*Drivers side had a crack around 50% of the braze, passenger side showed early sign of crack. Put it down to fatigue and wheel catching the wing stay at max suspension travel.

 

Skin will need peeling back and harness unclipping from cross tubes.

 

Think its common to flares,

[Terry Field]

Spoke to Bruce at Arch and he confirmed that it could be repaired without removing the side skin, and was indeed a 'Saturday morning job'

 

Interesting to note the comments about fatigue on the bracket in relation to flares. It makes some sense especailly on a car like mine which is over 12 years old, so I will be checking the other side as well before going to Arch.

 

I'm relieved to find that it is not going to be the mega expensive repair I had feared

 

Watch this space for volunteers to trailer me up to Cambridge

 

Terry

 

1700XF - Team Lotus with flares.

[Sheds Moderator]

This kind of failure is quite common with welded/brazed structures. The weld is stronger than the parent metal. What happens is that around the weld you have a "heat affected zone" where the metal has been heated to less than its melting point and this affects the crystal structure in very complx and uncontrolled fashions. SOme of these xal forms will be hard and brittle and this encourages crack formation when loaded. Cracks propagate, especially in a motor vehicle, and so over timeyou may see this sort of failure. The good news is that it's cheap and easy to repair.

 

Of course you can avoid this by heating the completed workpiece to XX temperature and allowing it to cool at a controlled rate but, as the saying goes, this falls outside the scope of basic automotive chassis technology.

[I.Mupferit]

Without wishing to be rude to CC or Arch the quality of metal used in our chassis is errrr, not the greatest but it is suited for its intended purpose when carbon-bronze welding is used. This was one of the concerns when CC started producing chassis by mig welding from Caged (as was) in that the weld would be considerably more stiff than brazing thus having no 'give' in the joint which can only result in more tubes fracturing over time.

 

I have noted since, however, that the grade of tube specified in the mig welded chassis is actually better than is/was being used by Arch. This isn't a criticism of Arch or CC by the way as there is nothing wrong with the material specified, given the welding process used, rather just an observation.

 

I know precisely the grade of metal used by Arch as I buy exactly the same material from the same suppliers for use in my own factory and which is welded/brazed using the self same process for certain applications.

 

I won't tell you what this particular metal is known as in the trade. 😬

 

Brent

 

2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive

R 417.39 😬

[Midnight]

Brent, I'm intrigued now a to what its called in the trade. I fully note that what Arch and CC specify and use is 'Fit for purpose', but I like the sound of a chassis made with very high quality, more rust resistant steel. I once heard an aquaintance from a certain country call it 'Sheissen metaal'