Ford Lsd

[LesG]

As part of the rebuild on my car, I've bought and plan to fit a Ford Lsd. I was told the output flanges (bolt on type) would just knock out, and then I'd be able to slide in my driveshafts as normal. Sadly, not the case!

The output flanges are secured into the diff with internal circlips which are only accessible by removing the end case of the diff. So, I'm guessing there must be a way of converting my driveshafts to the bolt on flange type? Does anyone know how to do this? It's another 'Challenge Blatchat' lol.

[Irrelevant]

LesG: You're not making this Caterham building lark simple for yourself are you?

What you're planning on doing is something I thought about doing but everyone said it's too much hastle as I'd need new driveshafts made up. Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but it's certainly going to be a pain in the 🙆🏻 for you.

One person who will definately know is Phil Stewart at Road and Race Transmissions (01959 525 105).

BTW: If you've got the plate type LSD, did you realise it will need modifying if it's to work well in a light weight Caterham?

[LesG]

Adam, if I was religious, I'd probably be in a corner somewhere beating myself with a bit of tree. Instead, I thought I'd buy myself a beat-up old Caterham, and rebuild it the hard way (it seems).

Not sure if it's the plate type, I thought they were all viscous? It's a 3.92 ratio, that's all I know. My next question was going to be; do you really need an lsd in a Caterham?

I'll give Phil a bell tomorrow, cheers for the contact info.

[MattF]

I think all of the Ford Sierra LSD are viscous and they have been fitted to plenty of Westfields, Strikers, Furys etc. I have seen pictures of a Striker here that has the same driveshaft arrangement that you require so it is possible.

 

Edited by - MattF on 23 Sep 2007 12:27:40

[Englishmaninwales]

LesG

As Adams states, doing it the hard way! You can pick up the correct diff for next to nothing, then retain the standard driveshafts, and fit an LSD. The ZF LSD is a plate type, and requires modification, as the Caterham is light weight. The Quaife type is a viscous type, slightly different operation, but to all intent does the same job, but is a straight forward fit.

There is a need for an LSD if you are going to race/sprint/hillclimb or do lots track days. Not necessary though if the car is for road use only.

 

malcolm

 

 

Edited by - Englishmaninwales on 23 Sep 2007 14:10:32

[Rob Walker]

Sorry to be picky Malcolm, but the Quaife is a gear/torque biasing LSD its uses worm gears that apply end thrust to semi lock the diff. The ford uses thick Viscous oil that is pressurised.

[Beelzebub]

ISTR this has been done before. However the cost of having the one off drive shafts made must be getting close to buying the likes of a Tran-x diff which would fit straight in. The ZF unit is considerably more expensive.

 

The downside of the viscous unit from the Sierra is that it's set up for a much heavier car & there is no means of adjusting anything IE ramp angles & pre-load. I had one in my Ginetta G33 & I was more than happy with it. How it would respond in a light weight car like a seven I've no eye deer.

 

D.

[LesG]

Cheers guys. So, it IS possible to fit one of these units, so long as I get custom shafts made right? Sounds ok. MattF, you're quite right, virtually all of the 'other' Sevenesque cars out there run the Ford lsd, seemingly without problems, and they're all pretty much of a muchness when it comes to the weight aspect.

Malcolm, I do intend on sprint/hillclimb/track days, as well as the odd blat, and after running a plate lsd on my Golf VR6 track car for several years, I really wouldn't want to drive a 'performance' car without one now. I don't want to end up getting frustrated by an inside wheel spinning anyway. Does anyone out there use an ordinary diff and not feel the need for an lsd?

[Englishmaninwales]

Thanks, Rob

 

Malcolm

[GTD]

LesG - none of the Academy or Grads cars have LSD's - I raced and tracked mine for 5 years before eventually getting one fitted!

 

They tried to make me go to Gatwick, I said No, No No

[LesG]

GTD, thanks for that, but you needed one in the end right?

Davesport, not sure how the weight of the car affects the operation of a viscous diff, as the oil is pressurised by the propshaft turning, and then the diff only reacts to one or the other wheels spinning? And surely all these other kit-car builders can't be that wrong using this type of diff, as pointed out by MattF?

Adam Hay, spoke to Phil Stewart today; he put me off both the Tran-X and Quaife, and told me to wait a month before ringing him again as they have a brand new unit coming out. So, a month to investigate fitting the Ford unit then!

[simonbell]

I looked at fitting the Ford unit but gave up.......you need to have modified driveshafts and I suspect the cost of this is equal to or more expensive than buying a ZF LSD unit......although I believe they are like hens teeth at the moment.

 

Interesting to hear that a new unit is on the way..........anyone know anything about this?

 

Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R

I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here

[Richard Price]

Interesting to hear that a new unit is on the way..........anyone know anything about this?

 

I've heard that Mitchell Cotts have aquired the rights to the ZF type diff. previously used by Caterham, but I don't know how much truth there is in this story!

[LesG]

Simon, did you actually cost the driveshafts anywhere? I'm gonna jump in with both feet on this one, I'm always up for a challenge (and not afraid to admit I was wrong!), and since getting home tonight, I've found two people locally who have used the Ford diff successfully. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

Phil told me this new unit is 'using all the best bits of the ZF unit, and then bettering it'. 😬

[simonbell]

No I didn't price the driveshafts but figured I'd have to source them from the mainland......I'm in Northern Ireland........so postage plus the manufacturer of the driveshafts and the cost of the diff itself would end up getting close to an aftermarket unit.

 

I have no doubt it can be done, just not sure that the hassle is worth it given that the type of diff is possibly not as suited or adaptable to the se7en as a plate diff. However as has been said plenty of people use them in other se7en type cars.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R

I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here

[Beelzebub]

Davesport, not sure how the weight of the car affects the operation of a viscous diff, as the oil is pressurised by the propshaft turning, and then the diff only reacts to one or the other wheels spinning? And surely all these other kit-car builders can't be that wrong using this type of diff, as pointed out by MattF?

 

Err.....Can't say I agree with any of that statement..........but who am I to argue. Got to go......got some pencils to sharpen.

 

Toodle-pip & erm, good luck with your driveshafts

 

[GTD]

GTD, thanks for that, but you needed one in the end right?

Well only if needed = wanted, then yes!!

 

But the car without still did the fastest under 2.0 litre sprint time round Goodwood without it against Duratech'd Westfields with all the kit last Easter Monday!

 

They tried to make me go to Gatwick, I said No, No No

[LesG]

GTD, sounds like I may be wasting my time/money after all then! Did you hillclimb with it too?

[LesG]

Hmmm, so, remove old push-in type driveshaft, peel back rubber on inboard cv joint, remove circlip, knock off old cv joint, slide on new (bolt-on) cv joint, attach circlip. Bloody hell, that was easy!

[Mickrick]

Good on yer! tennacity wins again

 

To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.

[simonbell]

LesG

 

So are you saying the push in driveshaft can be converted to flange type using std off the shelf parts, well off the shelf at the local scrappie.......if so then looks like this might not be such an expensive option after all.

 

I understand it is possible to get the viscous units adjusted for a lighter car like a se7en.

 

One of the reasons I wasn't totally happy with a custom driveshaft is that I do a lot of touring, therfore if a driveshaft fails I can get a std one shipped out overnight, whereas a custom one would mean the end of the tour probably.

 

Do you have any photos of the conversion.

 

Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R

I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here

[LesG]

Hi Simon, yes, I used my original driveshafts off my car, and ordered two new bolt-on flanges from my local autoparts supplier. Job done! I also spoke to(I'm sure) SPC, who confirmed that you can 'adjust' the diff to work on a lighter car like a Caterham, you dismantle it, flush out the heavy grade grease that the viscous coupling operates with, apply a lighter grade grease, and hey presto! In my case though, as I haven't actually driven the vehicle with an open diff yet, I'll probably just get used to how it drives anyway, not knowing there's any difference to the original.

 

Mickrick; cheers!

[simonbell]

LesG

 

Do you have a manufacturer and part number for the flanges?

 

Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R

I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here

[LesG]

Simon, yes, give me to the weekend 'till I can get back into the workshop again

[sopris]

I think there's some incorrect info early in this thread. OEM 7" Ford Sierra LSDs as fitted to a Caterham will only ever be the ZF type; the viscous diff was only used in the 7.5" diff (Cosworth and XR4x4) which won't fit a Caterham chassis without mods.