PTP 220 evo k series ?

[RESOLVIWOLF]

Does any one run this engine ? It seems pretty desirable from the spec with an 8500 limit and peak power for a decent range of the top end.

 

regards

 

 

Rich

[V7 SLR]

What's its spec?

[V7 SLR]

And how much?

[RESOLVIWOLF]

220bhp Evo 'K' Series Engine Assembly - £9800 (ex VAT)

 

PTP 220+ bhp Evo Race engine assembly.

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

The ultimate from the PTP stable. All aspects of the 140,165HTD,and the VHPD engine development have been evolved to create the ultimate performance from the K series engine for the race track.

 

Highly modified chambers and ports, more unique camshafts, mechanical valve gear and mechanical timing belt tensioning are key features of the EVO cylinder head. Lighter forged pistons, Steel con rods, Ultra Lightweight Flywheel and a PTP lightweight steel crankshaft combine to optimise the reciprocating components in both strength and functionality.

 

The block structure is also modified and with newly designed liners to increase rigidity and overall product reliability it copes with the speed and performance delivered.

 

The induction system utilises a PTP developed multi throttle manifold designed in which is now powering the new Lotus 340R and Exige enginesk, a new air filter is also supplied.

 

The evolution engine performance is significantly improved over that of the current VHPD. Key features from the 140 and 165 have enable significant gains in torque over the whole of the engine speed range to be obtained. The maximum power is in excess of 220hp and seen at 8200 rpm with the rev limit set to 8500rpm.

 

The Evolution engine is delivered to the customer fully run in and rated ready for immediate race use.

 

 

 

 

www.ptp-ltd.co.uk

 

 

[New Barbie]

I think I've looked at most permutations of K-series before I decided on my current path and imho the ptp package is probably a reasonable product but expensive for what it is.

 

Given the cost, you can do a lot with that kind of money. The advantage is the off-the-shelf nature but you don't learn a lot by just plugging in a new powerplant. I've spoken to ptp about a few things and the products are not cheap but they do know the K-series very well. Minister are used by Caterham though and I'd say use them if you want this kind og package as the car overall is worth more with a Caterham known supplier, even though it's the same raw product.

 

I'd prefer to build up something myself using quality components and spread the effort over time.

 

What are you looking to do with this engine ?

 

 

[V7 SLR]

I'm of the opinion that you can get a reliable 225bhp from a K engine without the need for all of the "extra" engineering PTP put into that engine (steel crank & rods and block/liner modifications), but you will need to attack the head with a set of carbide cutters. In all you could probably spend half that amount, or possibly even less.

 

That said, it's a problem-free installation which is over-engineered so should prove to be utterly reliable. Whether you favour PTP or Minster, there's little to choose between them in terms of price or competency. Both are expensive, but both good.

[Paul Ranson]

According to the PTP quote earlier the engine is 'delivered ready for race use'.

 

Personally I would be very unhappy with a 225BHP 1.8l engine that didn't have steel bits, for the same reason that a dry sump starts to become essential. You may get away with it, especially for blatting, but race or serious track usage is a different level of stress. And it will cost you way more than a steel crank/rods should it pop. A professional engine builder would be in a very difficult position if they didn't specify upgraded internals at that level of tune.

 

Paul

[Julian Thompson]

Got to agree with that!

 

If the R500 can be exploded WITH steel bits then what chance a DIY special?

[V7 SLR]

Julian, aren't you reading the posts about the R500 engine? EVERYONE is now saying that they have sorted it and IT DOESN'T EXPLODE and hasn't for quite some time now. I'm tired of reading this. If anyone has recent evidence to the contrary I'd be interested to hear.

 

The PTP engine represents a good set of components, but you have to understand the nature of engine breakdowns before you can blithely state that those components will prevent engine breakdown.

 

1. "Common" knowledge is that liners move through excessive revs.

 

FACT: There is nothing really special about the R500 liners and they don't move even up to 9000+rpm. All VHPD and R500 engines use "graded" liners. I'm not 100% sure what this means other than they are manufactured WITH all the other liners and may be selected as having particularly good tolerance.

 

2. At revs approaching 8000rpm and power outputs approaching 180bhp it is ADVISABLE to go for forged pistons.

 

FACT: I have seen one engine where the non-forged pistons didn't last but there is a suspicion that the mapping was wrong. That said, I have seen a number of other engines where forged pistons weren't in use and they holed. I'm not sure that this is a particulat problem for Ks though. I certainly haven't seen enough failures to warrant this as gospel. Perhaps though, for the price of a set of forged pistons it is worth the peace of mind?

 

3. At revs approaching 8500rpm you are advised to go for stronger rods, pref steel.

 

FACT: I've not heard of any standard K series rods failing, and I met someone recently who works for Rover who told me that he uses them at higher revs than even I do. The worry is that the 1.8 has a particularly savage rod angle, and coupled with the pressures exerted upon them they might snap. As I've NOT heard of a SINGLE failure of these, I'm not convinced... yet. I reserve the rights to change my mind if proof is presented.

 

4. At revs over (about) 8300rpm you need a steel crank.

 

FACT: How many standard ones have you heard about that have failed? Me, none. Apparently the VHPD crank has had some surface treatment but this really only extends to wear resistance. Perhaps this is because not enough people rev their engines to these extremes. I maintain that you don't need to rev this high in order to achieve this power output.

 

5. You can't have a reliable engine pushing out over 200bhp without the engineering that's gone into the PTP engine.

 

FACT: Why not? There are now plenty of such engines out there being used very hard. In particular there are 2 1600cc Ks that are at 180bhp and have been used hard (not raced) for over 3 years quite satisfactorily.

 

 

 

If you want to spend 9 grand plus vat on an engine, go ahead. I acknowledge that it IS a good set of components, but ask you whether they are all strictly necessary and does the engine represent good VFM, particularly when you can have an engine at the same power for half that. If you are going to race it, then I accept that you could probably justify the cost but for trackdays and road use I think that it is overkill. It is a badge. "I've got as PTP engine".

 

What people tend to ignore is the fact that most failures will happen due to the high revs. Look, steel cranks, steel rods, dry sump drive belts falling off, liners moving... all these problems are associated with high revs. If you can get 225bhp at 7770rpm (I have a plot to prove this) then why go higher unless you are going to race it?

 

Your derogatory "DIY Special" shows your ignorance at the dozens of home-built or user-specified engines in operation quite satisfactorily, all of which represent excellent VFM with regards to bang for your buck.

[Peter Carmichael]

The PTP engine will need the standard Caterham mods to fit in a caterham installation - sump and sump internals in particular.

 

Most VHPD cranks have no surface treatment. Only the early ones were Tuftrided (nitro-carburised).

 

I would agree that talking about engines "exploding" is misleading without looking a bit deeper at the detail of the modes of failure. Often failures are related to installation issues. The R500 is the highest output k-series that has been thoroughly proven in a Caterham installation. There are more problems with R500 clutches presently than with the engines themselves.

 

I would be very wary of offering an engine for sale at this level of tune, with any kind of warranty, without some control over installation.