Caterham 21's in next years Speed Championship

[RichardO]

Tis indeed the case that the relevent bits of blue book part Q have to be complied with - no MSA permit or insurance otherwise. Exceptions are made for historic vehicles, but doubt you'd be able to argue well enough to get 21s in that category!

 

See rule L10.1.1 applying to sprints.

 

Gambo; if anyone has their head above the bar they shouldn't be competing. Top of the helmet should be at least 5cm/2 inches below the top of the bar. I know it's not generally checked at scrutineering, but the officials should be watching when people are lining up for their run. Certainly it's observed at race meetings, and the same roll bar rules apply to speed events. If there are significant numbers of people ignoring this then I think it's worth a reminder on next years registration form.

 

R

 

Edited by - RichardO on 5 Sep 2007 09:04:21

[RichardO]

I've found the list of exemptions - not much chance of getting a 21 in here methinks:

 

Period Defined Vehicles (Non Rally)

A – (Veteran) Cars built before 1/1/1905.

B – (Edwardian) Cars built between 1/1/1905 and

31/12/1918.

C – (Vintage) Cars built between 1/1/1919 and 31/12

1930.

D – (Post Vintage Thoroughbred) Cars built between

1/1/1931 and 31/12/1946.

E – Cars built between 1/1/1947 and 31/12/1961 (up to

31/12/1960 for single seater and two seater racing

cars).

---

[Jason Plato]

and you would need to have the petty strut fitted to conform to fia (I think)

 

here is C7 TOP

Taffia rear gunner

 

[Silver 21]

Richard

 

Its counted as a roadgoing specialist production car and in that case no roll over protection is required but recommended (L10.1.1)according to the Blue Book, thats why you see Roadgoing TVR's, Morgans etc able to compete without roll over protection.

 

Their recommended fitment has no diagonal bracing or petty strut 😳

 

Graham

Looking for a new vocation in life or is that a vacation

 

Edited by - Bacon Butty on 5 Sep 2007 09:16:20

[neil.cavanagh]

Graham,

I knew people would start to take it personally.

 

I dont' have a downer on the 21 generally. But to ME it is NOT a 7. It is based on, but itsn't one. That is solely based on the looks, and is a personal opinion.

 

If the masses want to let 21s in to the championshop I have no real issue with it. I was just trying to point out that it wasn't as cut and dry an issue as Dave was trying to make out.

 

As for them coming in to class 4. Bring it on. The more the merrier. If they beat me it will just give me a target to push harder to try and beat. I've shown this year that an SV can be competitive. I'm sure Dave will do the same for 21s.

[Alex Wong1697456877]

But to ME it is NOT a 7. It is based on, but itsn't one. That is solely based on the looks, and is a personal opinion.

---

 

 

But as they have nowhere elso to play, I guess they can come along and sit quietly in the corner......

[Richard Price]

I guess they can come along and sit quietly in the corner......

 

I can't imagine either BB or Dave21P "sitting quietly in the corner" 😬

 

 

[Nifty]

[Aside again ❗]

 

Windycat, Neil1202,

 

I think you may both have missed my point slightly and have picked up on my individual situation rather than looked at the wider picture. The fact that I've competed at Curborough 3 times is indeed an advantage over someone who never has .. the fact that I have a memory like a sieve and therefore forget how to drive it from one year to the next is something of a hinderance.

(My mention that I'd only competed at Curborough was a bit of an aside and a bit of a red herring to you with regard to my argument).

 

Take Mr X who had driven once at Aintree in 2006.

He then competes at Curborough, August 2007 and by the club rules can no longer be considered a novice and therefore unable to bid for the fastest novices trophy, despite the fact that those who will be in the hunt could well have done all the previous eleven sprints for that year. They are considered a novice, he isn't

(And considering your point Windy, the others will also have done Curborough once before too).

 

Obvioulsy if you only attend one sprint per year you are never going to be in the running for the novice championship and so I'm not sure why that should be considered.

 

Neil,

You were indeed a worthy winner of the trophy at Curborough the other week and are quite rightly considered a novice with just 6 events under your belt , but that's 3 more than me and 4 more than Mr X. So, whilst "vastly more experienced" might be a slight exaggeration (if you'd done all 11 it would still be an exaggeration) you are certainly more experienced than someone who is only doing their second event, possibly some years after their first.

 

In the past, and certainly when I joined the club in summer of 2001, Curborough was seen as a club event/day out, not just a sprint event and there was always a large crowd. A number of people would enter to see how they faired in the safe knowledge that they would not be under pressure from outsiders and feel humiliated if they under performed. The August event in particular used to see such a gathering and such people. A taster like this would give people the confidence to have a serious go the following season. It would be highly unlikely, though not without precedent, that a novice would feature in the top of one of the well populated classes, so the encouragement would be to have a novice championship. However, under the current rules, those persons who did such a taster at the August Curborough would automatically eliminate themselves from the next year's novice championship.

 

Apart from being a little unfair towards people who are truly novices at the art of sprinting it also acts to discourage someone from joining the championship at a time when we see support dwindling a little that threatens the viability of club events.

By changing the novice entitlement rules, Mr X might well be encouraged to join the championship having a realistic chance of chasing a prize.

 

I am wholeheartedly in favour of 21s joining in but from a point of view of promoting the speed championshiop I think a change of novice entitlement would be a much bigger push.

 

The moral - enter more events, you'll get more out of it!!

I totally agree and it was indeed my intention to join the championship in 2006, after my first run out in August 2005. However, work and personal matters put a stop to that plan, though I was in attendance at one or two events in 2006 as a spanner man for Gordon Hodgkinson, as well as competing at the May '06 Curborough. It was only when I entered Cur. '06 that I realised that I was not considered a novice any more.

 

I have already stated elsewhere that I have every intention of signing up for the championship next year (God willing) and look forward to getting soundly thrashed by everyone else in Class 5 ❗

 

Please, please, please do not think that I am writing this because I am bitter about my own situation. As Mr Lyall so kindly put it, I drive the 7 like my Land Rover so I have no delusions that a change of rules will give me glory. I just think it would be a little more fair and considerate and therefore attract more people (back) to the sprint events for the good of us all ... as you say, the more the merrier.

 

[/Aside ❗]

 

Sorry, I've rather taken the subject off track.

Must now go and thrash the Land Rover to a field of parsley for a night's work - do you think I can manage a doughnut on the left hander ❗

 

Back on track .... Up the 21s ❗ *thumbup*

😬 😬

 

 

 

 

Keep off the straight and narrow 😬

[FlymoFraser]

Nifty

 

My reply was meant to be tongue in cheek. I'll have to put more smilies in next time to make it clearer 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬

 

...............and to think I was just saying to some fellow competitors that the rule change meeting at the end of the year should be over quickly because of a lack of issues 😔

 

 

 

R287 Mobile Jaffa Cake- It's black at both ends with a smashing orangey bit in the middle here

[mav]

Nifty - I banged this drum a couple of years ago - Viv has done one Club sprint - one of the Corborugh events in '04. As such she is no longer a novice under club rules despite only haveing ever taken part in one event, and then only completing 3 laps of the circuit!

[Alex Wong1697456877]

It seems illogical to me to have any situation where anybody can win more than one novice trophy.

[robmar]

*thumbup*to 21s in the sprint championship, as long as they conform to all the regs as they stand, bla bla bla

 

on whihc class they should fit into, it should be under current power/tyres etc, if more than 1 turns up they can have an uffocial 21s league based upon relevant points scored in relation to the top car in each class...

 

rob

[Irrelevant]

People wittering on about the novice awards again . . . . Just accept you have ONE chance to win them, both the seasonal novice cup & event level novice awards. You only get this chance in your first year of sprinting - and that's the only practical way of doing it.

If you did a sprint 5 years ago then tufties . . . . move on and aim for the normal awards.

 

[Englishmaninwales]

People wittering on about the novice awards again

Well said. Many of us have fallen victim of doing a taster sprint, then being unable to enter the novice championship the following year. Just get on with it.

 

Malcolm

[mav]

 

 

Edited by - mav on 6 Sep 2007 10:34:17

[Silver 21]

I hope I'm not treading on mark's toes here but I'm sure this can be discussed again at the competitors forum later in the year (ducks and runs for cover), I thought the novice championship applied to people competing in their first year of the championship and an odd event in the past still made them eligible or have I got it completely wrong 🤔 🤔

 

Anyway can we get this thread back onto its topic which in 21's in next years championship, so far it looks like nearly full support on here so Mark are you listening 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬

 

Graham

 

21ing

[Mark Durrant]

I spoke to Mark about this thread last night I understand he is following it with interest

[Silver 21]

Thanks Ray

 

Glad to know he's looking 😬

[Martin S.]

I can see Neil C's point of view but on balance I don't see a problem.

 

HOWEVER I suspect that we'd all be objecting more if we were talking about a 7 variant that was likely to pose more of a threat.....so are we happy to let them in just because they are likely to be slower, that doesn't seem quite right

 

Class 4 Zetec

[Nifty]

[Aside]

People wittering on about the novice awards again . . . . Just accept you have ONE chance to win them, both the seasonal novice cup & event level novice awards. You only get this chance in your first year of sprinting - and that's the only practical way of doing it.

If you did a sprint 5 years ago then tufties . . . . move on and aim for the normal awards.

---

Well said. Many of us have fallen victim of doing a taster sprint, then being unable to enter the novice championship the following year. Just get on with it.

I am just getting on with it .. but I'm highlighting what I see as a flawed rule .. FOR FUTURE PARTICIPANTS, NOT MYSELF.

 

It seems illogical to me to have any situation where anybody can win more than one novice trophy.

I totally agree, but if you are to have a novice championship over the season then this is blatantly possible.

Personally I'd fix novice status to a fixed maximum number of events competed in, regardless of season, or to their first event only and ditch the novice championship.

 

[/Aside]

 

 

Keep off the straight and narrow 😬

[Silver 21]

Nifty

 

Get off my thread 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬

 

Graham

 

21ing

[Nifty]

Orf moi Laand ❗ ❗

 

 

😬 😬 😬

 

 

 

I will do, Sir

 

Keep off the straight and narrow 😬