Best first Caterham to buy with limited budget

[murf99]

Brunel

 

Agree with you as stated before, I bought mine cos i can take it apart and make it what i want it to be in my own little garage

 

Ed

 

Are you following this thread, dont be put off they are all fabulous little cars

Get one and enjoy yourself

 

John

[Irrelevant]

*eek*You lot with old Xflows are a sensitive bunch aren't you . . . Well, I now stand corrected . . .

 

I guess Caterham got it wrong by fitting them new fangled K series engines, and then those space age new Ford engines. And why, oh why, did they bother replacing that wonderful live axle with a needlessly high tech dedion thingy? And as for those disgusting cycle wings - what were they thinking

 

I think I'm starting to get it now . . .the last 15 years of Caterham 'progress' has been a waste of time and at some point back in the mid 1990's, Caterham's 'Concorde Moment' occurred - i.e. the day the last 4 speed, LA, XFlow was pushed off the Caterham production line (it would have been driven but wouldn't start as the points were damp ).

[Colin Mill]

Ed - perhaps you should consider spending your 12k on a Westfield and join a club where they don't blow-torch each other's skins off 😬

[murf99]

Adam Hay

 

VERY SAD

 

John

[DaveMorris]

Adam,

you're not helping much are you ?

 

Ed,

I'd advise going along to the club meet and talking to the people there. Taking offers of rides and discussing the chassis, engine, suspension, seat, dash, gearbox, tyre, rim size, etc options. They say that no two Caterhams are the same. This isn't really true - but there's one heck of a range of permutations. Find one that suits you, you don't have to spend all your dosh to get a big grin on your face, and as they don't depreciate too rapidly you can always sell on and change types or upgrade your original purchase.

 

Dave.

[Revin Kevin]

Adam,

You really don't get do you. You have to snipe back at all these genuine people expressing how much they enjoy their cars. As I have already said, I could point out a number of issues with the newer and more expensive cars as I could also about older less expensive cars.

BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SHOULD BE ABOUT. It's about enjoying the Genious of Mr Chapman and his assocaties who created a simple chassis (that was already outdated before it left the drawing board)together with basic off the self components to create a car that was greater then the sum total of it's parts. What I am saying, Brunel hit it on the head by saying,quote

There seems to be a growing trend in this Club (on Blatchat) to look down on these particular cars as they do not provide the Supercar image and for me this is very concerning. These classic model cars are CLASSIC.

All I would like is not to be made to feel second class, because I cannot ( and don't want too) keep up with the latest bling. As Brunel said it is a worrying trend certainly on Blatchat, far so less out there in the real club world in my experience, that because I want to enjoy the sevening experience at a cost I can justify rather than have the latest, most expensive car (that is complicated and therefore not in the Chapman ethos in my opinion).

The Seven when new was not cutting edge and in fact was a step back for Chapman, it was a design that the clubman could drive daily and race at the weekend at a price as low as possible.

All I want is a club that as a whole we enjoy the driving experience of this superb car ,regardless of the depth of our wallets. I just don't want people saying my car is CARP because they have something different, is that so wrong!

 

Cheers

Chris

 

PS

Ed. please don't be put off by this.

 

[Petrolhead]

Revin, I think you have now made your point.

 

Lets not turn this thread into a slanging match.

 

Back on topic -

 

Hi Ed and welcome to the interesting world of 7s and Blatchat

 

There seems to be a huge amount of Caterhams for sale on Pistonheads at the mo. I always have a peak from time to time and think it currently running at an all time high of 78

 

This makes it a buyers market which is good for you.

 

It may be an idea to tell us what you intend to do with the car, ie road use only, tours, sunday blatting and the occasional track day or more biased towards lots of track days

 

R5 no 65 😬

[Trevor Newman]

Revin Kevin you appear to have a chip on your shoulder that you couldnt afford much and what you do have is looked down upon by others

 

Ed Clearly with a budget of 12k you can get a better later DD car rather than an LA which have their weak points

 

If you want to spend as much time tinkering in the garage as you do driving it then get a LA if you want to drive it hard get a DD

[Irrelevant]

Ed W's original question was:

 

I intend to buy a Caterham, with a budget of around £12k. The question is which is the best engine / chassis combination?

 

Does the answer to this question have Crossflow or live axle in it? . . . . I think not.

 

 

 

Revin Kevin: IMO, the standard Crossflow ENGINE is the worst ENGINE you'll find in a Caterham. It has the lowest power, the worst fuel consumption, pistons that melt at over 6500rpm, and is likely to need a rebuild within 20K miles. It's also very heavy and mounted a long way forward which compromises the car's handling.

I didn't say you couldn't have fun with a Xflow car and I didn't say they were not reliable, mine was both.

I did not say because you drive a Caterham with a relatively carp engine that you should feel second class. I also did not say that because you choose to spend less on Caterhams that anything can be inferred from this.

[Chaz23]

Well I picked mine up from CC South at the very end of April this year for under £12K, yes I could have gone else where but as it was my first and was not sure what to expect I made a choice (which I do not regret).

 

I went in not knowing too much difference between the engines and axles and bought a 1993 1700 SuperSprint De-Dion, it sounded good and looked good. So what if it is a bit thirsty It sounds great and is great fun to drive and no matter what car you get you will always get some problems with it (and that includes tin-tops) - that is what the tech-talk section is for 😬

 

What ever you go for enjoy it.

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Well I picked mine up from CC South ..... this year ....... , yes I could have gone else where but as it was my first and was not sure what to expect I made a choice (which I do not regret).

 

Ditto for me.

 

You don't need a manual for a Seven - with the help and support of the BlatChat community through TechTalk - you have the Best Online Manual there is !!

 

Look forward to seeing you on the road !

 

******************

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking...

 

And racing around to come up behind you again. new link to photos

[SLR No.77]

I sold my K-Series DeDion last autumn for a little over £11K.

 

1996 Supersport, converted from 1400 to 1800 with a DVA rebuilt engine in 2003, recently fitted with a Caterham dry sump setup. Also throttle bodies and Emerald.

Very tidy, black/polished Superlight rims, updated by black-packing various bits at a local powder coaters, CF front wings making it look a little "extra special". (New owner has now taken it to 200bhp!).

 

This is an ideal spec car for less than £12K - modern, reliable, and loads and loads of fun. There are good later spec cars out there for that kind of money - genuine 1600 Superlights have changed hands for as low as £12.5K! I will never knock the older technology and the enjoyment of the simplest from of motoring in it's simplest spec, but with a 12K budget I don't think the older cars are really the order of the day. £12K will easily buy a mid to late '90s K-Series car, DD axle and really no need to be a racer at that money. Don't knock the K it's an excellent engine. Yes it may need the liner heights reworking if it's potentially going to lose a head gasket, but that's easily sorted by DVA.

 

Stu.

 

www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬

 

 

[Dickie Normuss]

FWIW I bought the 7's I've had with a budget of about £12k. The first was a mint 1700 X-flow De Dion. It never let me down once, was an absolute joy to drive and made a noise to die for 😬, yes it wasn't particularly frugal but should that really be a consideration for weekend car? Oh, did I mention the noise it made? 😬 The current one is a 2.0l Vauxhall HPC injection. It's quite a bit quicker than the X-flow but has been troublesome, it needs constant TLC. I used it as my only car for about 18 months and work is a 100 mile round trip, I averaged 36 mpg I've never owned a K engined car so don't know what they're like to live with but I have driven a few and came to the conclusion that the K really suited the car. At the end of the day buy the nicest car you can afford but I would suggest keeping a little money aside as there are bound to be a few bits you'll want to change to make it exactly how you want it. I would also strongly, if you haven't already, get to your area meet and tap into the wisdom??? on offer. Someone will be only too happy to come and look at a car with you. Regardless of what you get you wont stop smiling, trust me.

 

VX HPC - Loud and proud here

Watch out, whatever hits the fan will not be distributed evenly

[mattobrien]

Ed - welcome to the madhouse.

 

I have a 1.8 VVC K on a Dedion and live in Ipswich, so not far from you. Also, i have a fairly clear weekend, so if the weather isn't too wet, i would be happy to take you out for a spin (hopefully not literally). Blat mail me if you fancy a run out.

 

Good luck in making your decision - I too would recommend coming along to the Carrotland meeting and also trying to drive as many different sevens as possible before you make your mind up.

 

Matt

[Colin Mill]

Although its not everyone's idea of the best deal I went for a new Classic in kit form which at the time was not a long way over the 12k budget being considered here. I wanted the fun of putting it together myself and I still consider this an integral part of the pleasure for me. It's "my" car in a way that no other car has been. With new prices being effectively up (because more bits are in the 'extras' category) and loads of SH cars being out there its perhaps an even less obvious choice but I'd still go that route for the intangible benefit from the build.

 

Colin

[Revin Kevin]

Trevor,

I apologies for appearing to have a chip on my shoulder, that was not my intent. All I am trying to achieve is a club/forum that we all enjoy without having to put up with people slagging each other and different cars/engines off.

 

Adam,

You continue to slag off the X Flow, as I have said I am experienced with the X Flow and I am a mechanical engineer by trade. You continue to repeat the same incorrect facts about a superb engine.

All designs if you look hard enough you can find weeknesses and faults, but my point is that I will not be drawn to slag something off on a public forum as I feel this is narrow minded and biggotted (excuse the spelling). By all means have an opinion based in fact and express this without prejudice.

 

Cheers

Chris

[murf99]

Hi All

 

 

WHERES ED GONE DURING ALL THIS NONSENSE

 

John

[Dickie Normuss]

Probably been scared off. Not really a good impression to a new member is it

 

VX HPC - Loud and proud here

Watch out, whatever hits the fan will not be distributed evenly

[Little Bob]

I had to make exactly the same decision as you late last year, with the same budget.

 

My reasoning was that I wanted modern mechanicals so I was looking at a K-series (Sigma's weren't around then and will be over your budget anyway).

 

From everything that I had read on Blatchat I was aware that you can get used to the power fairly quickly, and I as I wasn't planning on selling anytime soon, I decided that either a 1.6, or ideally a 1.8, SuperSport would be a good starting point - simple enough mechanically and yet with enough performance to keep me happy for quite some time.

I admit that I was a little concerned that I may find 135-140 Bhp in 600Kg too much initially and perhaps kill myself, but trust me this isn't the case.

 

Next I decided that in an ideal world I would like a 6 speed gearbox (must have with a K, IMHO), LSD (more fun), heater (bit of a wimp in winter), leather interior (a little luxury) etc, etc.

 

I must have looked at around 12 cars (plus those at CC South and Midlands) and travelled over 2000 miles in total before I found the right one - right engine, right bits, right condition, and very importantly the right seller. There is an old saying that you should 'buy the seller' as well as the car, and I wholeheartedly agree with this.

 

In the end I bought a car in Southport, and I live near Brighton - a long way, but this was the right car for me.

 

FYI: I bought a 1998 1.8 SuperSport, 15K miles, with 6 speed gearbox, LSD, full leather trim (all in red, rare and lovely), red starter button, heater, etc. All standard factory fitted.

The car was also factory built by Caterham Midlands which was a plus, and had never seen rain or a track.

Lots of history (previously sold and serviced by Millwoods, so I spoke to them, they confirmed that both the seller and the car were perfect and spoke highly of both), clear HPI check.

I've added 10 spoke anthracite alloys and CR500's (inc. spare) and a private plate and that's all.

 

For me I know this was the right car - easy to drive, looks great, totally reliable, cheap to run, and still enough performance to scare me even after 8 months of familiarity.

 

Unfortunatley a change in circumstances means I may be putting C7 GTE up for sale shortly - if you're interested drop me a mail for more details, it will be around your budget (photo's on my sig).

 

You should get a nice 7 for your budget, make sure you have an idea of what your ideal car spec would be, and try to get along to your local meet for advice and information - this club is heartwarmingly welcoming.

 

Best of luck!

 

 

C7 GTE at Goodwood

[Sheds Moderator]

On a positive note - I've never driven a XF or live axle 7. I'm sure they are good fun. Nevertheless Ital axles are less reliable than DD rear ends which seem to be bulletproof. XF 7s are in my opinion rather dated technology and I wouldn't spend 12k on one. At 7k they become a viable choice provided the engine with its quick-wear pistons is OK. Having said that I just sold my 1.4 K supersport for not much more, 130 bhp/35mpg is a good combination.

 

Someone said some people can't maintain a K in a lockup. In my experience injection is easier than carbs and while a HG on a K is no pushover it's not hard. Certainly I'd rather do that than change valve guides on a XF.

 

In my opinion the XF offers the "classic 7" experience and I do like the notion of ripping the bits off a supercar using an Escort motor, carbs and clockwork points, but I don't want the 25mpg thirst.

[Dannyboy]

This has all been rather amusing!!

 

However, I'd definately recommend going with a K-series, DD....reliable, frugal, and a nice introduction with relatively simple and cheap upgrade path should that be required!

 

I bought my '94 1.4k 6 years ago for 8.5k....Since then I've done 150 odd thousand miles of relatively trouble free motoring....If I'd brought a X-flow, doubtless Id've been broke by now and had to sell the car because of the fuel economy or the engine rebuilds, or on a track day the half shaft would've broken, or the bearings gone etc etc.....In fact, a friend of mine is contemplating converting a Vx on carbs to a K-series to allow him to afford to run and justify keeping the car!.......

 

Buy the best you can, but even old shed's are worth considering!! The more you use the car the more reliable it is in general I've found!

 

Dannyboy

 

[Mark Piper]

Who is Revin Kevin? Does he have a beard?

 

Eric Mc can we have your views? - as a crossflow owner for many years, Ed would benefit from your views on what he should buy...

[Ed W]

THANK YOU!

 

I thought I would get such a wide ranging response to my question so quickly!

 

For the record I want the car for blatting round Norfolk and Suffolk at weekends, with the odd trackday - but realistically cannot afford more than that. I quite fancy going touring for the odd week. Based on this I was thinking about a Roadsport rather than superlight.

 

Based on test drives in both de-dion and live axel, on good roads compared to where I live, I preferered the DD. Regarding engines I do take all the points about power, I love the sound of the Webbers, and would enjoy the tinkering, but sense that a K series may be the better route powerwise.

 

Could some one explain the various upgrade routes from a VX, XF & K series, as in all probability I am buying the car with the intention of keeping it rather than changing in a couple of years, and would be useful to know.

 

Thanks again for all the advice & I am going to the Local cub meet on the 6th.

 

PS What are the pros & cons of clams vs cycle wings?!!

 

 

[Paul McKenzie]

"PS What are the pros & cons of clams vs cycle wings?!!"

 

OMG...now you've done it *eek*

 

Paul

[Crudders]

PS What are the pros & cons of clams vs cycle wings?!!

 

Haven't you opened enough worm cans for the moment?

 

DOHC engines like the K and VX Red Top are relatively easy to upgrade by changing induction, cam timing, cams, engine management, etc., without necessarily changing the guts of the engine (although that's obviously advisable if the power is being hiked significantly). Getting a lot of power out of a crossflow is possible but very involved and heavy on the pocket - in typical Caterham Supersprint spec. it's already uprated way beyond standard Ford spec, which IIRC was never more than 84BHP.

 

I have a Live Axle 7 with a crossflow and 4 speed box which suits me fine, but (unfortunately) it's not worth anything like your budget. If you could find something like Brent Chiswicks old car though, that would be a different matter - it started out the same spec as mine but ended up with an English axle, 5 speed box and Zetec engine putting out over 200BHP. A very nice car indeed that sold for around £12.5k IIRC.

 

Zetec engines probably offer the best performance/reliability/cost balance in the 7, and quite a few crossflow cars have now been upgraded with kits from Raceline and others. Well worth considering IMO.

 

Crudders

 

P.S. To answer your question, I actually much prefer flared wings but have to admit to bowing to enormous peer pressure and rebuilding my car with cycle wings. The flared wings are still around though, and are not for sale