Best first Caterham to buy with limited budget

[Ed W]

I intend to buy a Caterham, with a budget of around £12k. The question is which is the best engine / chassis combination?

 

I understand de-dion is more compliant than a live axle, which would be better on potholed country lanes in suffolk?

 

What is better a later classic (engine vx 1.6 or 1.4 K series) or an older de-dion with a more powerful engine (supersprint or 1.6 K series)?

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Tom_C]

Your budget should get quite a nice car if you look in the right places. I got my 1.6k ex academy for a little over 13k when it was 10 months old on ebay.

 

 

BTW please give generously to Bundle's Big Charity Walk for Asthma research here Ta.

 

Cheers

 

Tom

 

FH54WLX

 

see here - UPDATED again

[S47zz]

If I was a novice and had to buy a Cat I'd go for a 1.8k. or a 2litre VauXhall engined car

You can never have enough power so I'd forget a smaller engined car. and especially a Xflow which came from the arc and is very thirsty on petrol.

If you can get a 1.8 or 2litre fuel injected car you're off to a good start, and you won't regret your decision to buy

[7 Sevens]

Ed,

 

I live in Manningtree so not far from you

 

My first 7 is an ex Academy 1.6 8v Vauxhall, five speed box and live axle. It does bounce around a bit on the local roads but I thought they all did that. I've used it in anger at RAF Woodbridge and its been great fun, sure it gets left behind at the top end but the live axle and hard tyres mean you can easily slide it.

 

I would probably want more power but then I would have spent a lot more in getting a car.

 

Mark

[irrotational]

I got a 1997 1.6 superlight, primarily because you get the extra toys like 6 speed box and LSD (for donuts), haven't looked at prices so not sure if these have come down to your budget (kind of hoping for my sake they havent! )

 

I found the car had more than enough for me - had it 18 months and still dont feel like i need any more power - but have had fun with the LSD!

 

(I have not owned any other fast cars and still consider my own abilities are the limiting factor - not the cars...)

 

Whichever version you get you'll love it and secretly think its the "best" one

 

---

this is a local sig for local people!

[Pierson]

Ed,

 

Why not pop along to a Norfolk/Suffolk 'Carrotland' monthly meeting and talk to some of the folks there? We have a wide variety of cars and the turnout is usually excellent. Most of the people don't bite, either, which is a bonus

 

Carrotlanders meet at The Cornwallis in Brome on the first Monday of every month.

 

Like Mark, I'm not too far away (Shotley) - Mail me if I can help further.

 

Cheers,

Pierson

 

[Irrelevant]

For £12K you can get a decent K, maybe even a VVC or a non-VVC one that's been DVA'd (or similar), possibly with 6 speed, big brakes, leather, widetrack, etc. You just need to arm yourself with the knowledge, so that when the right car comes up, you can act quickly and snap it up. At the right time of year(around Xmas is best), you can drive hard deals as well.

With your budget, you can ignore live axles (which is good as they aren't ) and, lets face it, Xflows are carp so ignore them as well.

As others have said, an injected 2.0vx or an 1800 K would be a good place to start. Maybe even a de dion Zetec if one comes up - if it does, there's a good chance it'll be well within your budget.

 

There are some fantastic old cars about, and some fundamentally bad condition, yet tarted up newer cars. Judge cars individually by condition and spec, not age. And by condition I don't mean cosmetics, although if these are poor it's a good bargaining tool.

 

Gigabusa II

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Not suggesting it is the cheapest place to buy, but there is a lot of second hand (sorry, previously-owned) stock in at Caterham South at the moment - so you can see the age/shape/condition of the sort of cars available via a dealer.

 

******************

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking...

 

And racing around to come up behind you again. new link to photos

[Revin Kevin]

This is an incredibly biased thread, K's do head gaskets and hydraulic tappets for a past time, and live axles are significantly lighter than de dions.

I bet someone who doesn't know will not be able to tell the difference between a well set up live axle and a de dion when they drive it.

THIS IS a very biased view but if people continually slag live axles and X flows in an unjustified way then they deserve all that they get.

In the last five euro trips I've been on the K's have by far been the more unreliable and the X Flow live axle cars have been far from left behind.

 

Happy Days

Chris

 

Edited by - Revin Kevin on 25 Jul 2007 16:56:39

[Irrelevant]

Revin Kevin: You aren't suggesting that anyone in their right mind should consider a LA Xflow if they've got £12K to spend are you

 

 

 

 

Gigabusa II

[Revin Kevin]

Adam,

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just fed up with people slagging X flows and live axle cars. They can and are a very viable car that gives people great driving please. A well set up and maintained car will stand it's ground along side alot more expensive cars.

With the repeated comments on this forum about X flow and live axles, I feel like I am being treated as a second class citizen because I have less money than someone else.

I can give you numerous valid reasons why not to buy K's and Dedions but I don't slag them off.

Why can't we just accept each other for what we are and not slag things off. It just makes me think that alot of the people who post on this forum are narrow minded and make large assumptions without good knowledge.

I don't want to rant on, I'm just FED UP.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

 

 

Cheers

Chris

 

Edited by - Revin Kevin on 25 Jul 2007 16:59:31

[Casbar]

Having had a xflow LA and now a K. If I had 12k, I would buy a LA car, and save myself some wonga, then I could decide if I liked the Caterham experience and then decide which way to go.

 

There is nothing wrong with Xflows or LA's

[robert green]

I have run a xflow car for 5 years with no reliability problems whatsoever. The carbs did not constantly need fettling (once a year when servicing was fine) and the simplicity of the engine was reassuring as I was confident that any problems could easily be rectified. I wanted more power 😬 and a 2.0 zetec from raceline seemed the most cost effictive way to go, and it is very easy from a xflow car. Why not buy a de dion or live axle car with a xflow for not much money, and a well proven upgrade path should you enjoy and want more power? It is fun for the car to grow with you rather than swapping it for "someone else's". Personaly I have no experience of the K series, but from what I understand they are far from perfect. The VX seems to be a reliable (if heavy 😳) lump.

[Irrelevant]

Revin Kevin: Ed W has asked for advice as he wants to make an informed decision. I'm just adding my tuppence worth . . . it's up to Ed W to decide what he takes on board.

But, IMO.........

Crossflows have poor fuel consumption and as standard a low power output. If tuned to give high power, their fuel consumption gets even worse and you have the added complications of having to use super UL fuel and possibly lead supplements. If you've got a highly tuned car, there's also the worry that if it goes bang it will be very expensive to fix. They're also loud and a pain to silence for trackdays. I know this because I used to have one Xflows have certain charms, admittedly and I liked mine a lot - but I would still not buy another one and I would like to have known about their 'charms' before I bought mine.

Live axles . . . . You may save 20kg with an LA but they have downsides, and bad ones...namely that they CAN BE unreliable if tracked and that their diffs, half shafts, and bearings are extremely hard/expensive to source these days. And true, SOME people may not be able to tell the difference between a LA and a DD, but the first time I went in a LA I thought the axle was falling off. I personally hate the feeling of the back axle bouncing about. Others might not mind it - but the axles DO bounce about and you CAN feel it.

1.6vx engines . . . . Again, many parts are very hard to find for these engines as they were originally bought as a batch by Caterham and are different to a normal 1.6 Vauxhall Astra/Cav engine. They are quite a nice motor though, but again, they are poor on fuel. I also think their prices are inflated a bit due to their suitability for Classic Graduate racing.

 

The reasons above would stop ME buying a LA, XF, or 1.6VX car . . . they may not matter to Ed W - I'm just pointing them out. I'm sure there are loads of problems with Ks, 2.0VXs, Zetecs, and whatever else . . I just don't know what they are.

 

Gigabusa II

[Revin Kevin]

Adam,

I've been building X Flows for 24 year plus and would disagree with your comments about the engine. As for live axles, I've been tinkering with the Ital for 12 years and the english for 24 or more, both are very viable, reliable when not used beyond there very reasonable limit, they are also cheap to build and repair.

If you want I can list numerous design faults/poor compromises with K's and Dedion axles.

I am not sure how someone can make informed decisions from it's carp.

BUT THIS IS NOT THE POINT, you have your opinion and I have mine, just please don't call something CARP because you have something different. As the last couple of post shows there are many caterham/Lotus owners out there that have X flows etc, and have great enjoyment from their cars, just because your is more expensive dosn't make their's CARP.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

Edited by - Revin Kevin on 25 Jul 2007 18:01:49

 

Edited by - Revin Kevin on 25 Jul 2007 18:20:21

[Blue-Lines]

You can get a nice live axle x-flow for 8 grand and a nice de-dion k-series (ex academy for example) for around 12 grand. They both have their merits and indeed their weaknesses but one thing is for sure they are BOTH are as FUN as one another...one just cost more as its typically a younger car with a "better" spec. Have a run out in a few different types and see what you think. Me i love x-flows sound great and easy to tinker with if your so inclined but i wouldnt say no to an r400 etc!

 

 

[Steve Boyes]

Ed,

 

Sorry you asked yet ?

 

For what it's worth, I had the same budget as you about 2 years ago to buy my first 7, having hankered after one for more years than I care to admit. I am a true mechanical numpty, and was nervous about buying something that would be constantly broken. Balanced against this, I wanted as much power as I could get for my money, and was not too concerned about age as long as the car was well looked after.

 

Having looked at all the usual sources, I ended up buying a X-Flow 1700 Supersprint (1992 model) from a well-lnown and very helpful club member. The car has not let me down once, provides a huge 😬 every single time I drive it and has cost peanuts to maintain (with the help of local club members here in N.I.). My rule would be that you buy a specific car, not a type of car. You can get good and bad examples of every version - take your time buying and you won't be sorry whatever you ultimatley go for.

 

Steve.

[Casbar]

As I've already stated, I have a K now, and very pleased I am with it. But when I did have my xflow, it was re-built with the help of Revin, to 155bhp spec, with forged pistons, and a 3D mapped ignition system. The grand total of this re-build was £1200, the engine was then pretty much bullet proof. I also had rose jointed rear suspension, and to be fair the ride was no different to my de-dion ride now.

 

Try re-building a K for that kind of money

[murf99]

ED

Loads on pistonheads, all types, nothing seems to be selling due to crap weather !!

 

Revin Kevin

Agree with every word you say, why cant people just enjoy these cars for what they are, great fun, who cares about all the crap just enjoy.

 

Adam Hay

I have the worst of the crap you despise, 92 Supersprint ( XFlow ) 4 Speed LA 4.1 LSD

And i absolutley love it, could have a new one if i wanted it, but chose a crapper !!!

Mind you if i want to go Really Quick i go out in my Red Rose Tuscan ( crap as well i suppose )

Regards All Just Enjoy What Youve Got John

[Gavin]

Ed,

 

*arrowright*8 valve VX with either Caterham 1.8 Supersprint or Bill Blydenstein conversion.

*arrowright*1700 Supersprint De-Dion. BUT watch out for tired engines. One with 3D ignition (much improved running & fuel consumption) and unleaded head preferable.

Both will fit well within your budget with change for upgraditus.

*arrowright*De-Dion Zetec conversion.

*arrowright*VX HPC - but can you get a good one for your budget?

 

I can't tell much difference between the ride quality of De-dion and LA.

 

Gavin.

 

prisoner 43 C12 KAR - OCTANE magazine photoshoot for article on prisoner edition 7 here

[IKB]

I am amazed at the emotion this topic generates . Lotus 7 and subsequently Caterham 7 was derived from a simple low cost concept of good chassis engineering (thank you ACBC ) with basic and economic power units giving high power/weight ratios with good acceleration and roadholding.

 

This concept has been subsequently maintained by Nearn with the Classic models powered by Ford/Vauxhall and eventually by 1.4K (ex Metro!). There seems to be a growing trend in this Club (on Blatchat) to look down on these particular cars as they do not provide the Supercar image and for me this is very concerning. These classic model cars are CLASSIC.

 

There is a place for the entry level car with easily maintained engineering and by some of the questions raised on these Forums some basic knowledge of these principles would not go amiss. The new cars from Caterham do not answer this and I wonder how many of the members can maintain the K series or Sigma engines in their lockups? As an entry vehicle to this exclusive experience you cannot beat a Ford/Vauxhall live axle car (assumlng you know the difference of a spanner to a hammer). This is what Chapman had in mind.

 

Am I biased? Of course. I have a 2001 VX1600 and over 50 years of motorcycle/car ownership and I am classic car enthusiast.

[Manxseven]

Buy Clive Dabinetts Fireblade at 12.5K .. job done

 

Caterham Fireblade here

[Lotus Boy]

Ed,

 

I have a VX HPC Inj. Bought mine for 12.5k two and a half years ago - one club owner from new in great condition. Good ones are out there if you look.

I always wanted a 2.0VX - bullet proof engine, reliable, lots of torque, plenty of power as standard. Great for touring and hooning.

 

I work in Ipswich so if you want a closer look one day, chat or help looking at a car just let me know. You can e-mail me through the forum by clicking on the 'e-mail poster' icon just above.

 

You've already done the right thing by joining the club first and getting along to the meet is a good thing to do too.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

[Bloggsy]

I asked a similar question on here a few months back, six pages on the subject here may be of some help. I know it was to me

[Revin Kevin]

GREAT!!!!

lots of postive, thats what this car, The SEVEN is all about and what this club should be.

 

Cheers all

Chris