hypoid 90 Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 take a look if you already have not at the for sale section at the vx 2.0 6v for sale by a, russel what do you think about the post's is it fair or not that arnie should be able to do that , Steve Davies Edited by - BevD on 21 Apr 2002 17:47:57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny. Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 Do you mean with regards to the deffinition of the name "HPC"?, if so I'll post my thoughts later. Kenny ex. HPC, SLR still at factory but ready for picking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoid 90 Posted April 21, 2002 Author Share Posted April 21, 2002 no the way fat arnie has ripped this guys car appart , the poor bloke has no chance of selling it now not off this web site anyway ,is arnie on some sort of single handed mission to uppset everybody Steve Davies Edited by - BevD on 21 Apr 2002 17:25:56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 I can only assume there is some sort of issue between these posters, it looked out of order to me IMHO. I also feel the good will and harmony that used to exist on this site is not as evident as it was. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoid 90 Posted April 21, 2002 Author Share Posted April 21, 2002 i realy couldn't see anything wrong with the original advert, i just feel sorry for andrew russel a lot of caterhams have none standard parts including arnie webbs , Steve Davies Edited by - BevD on 21 Apr 2002 17:50:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoid 90 Posted April 21, 2002 Author Share Posted April 21, 2002 my car was a 93 chassis but had a new chassis in 95 everything else was replaced in jan- march this year so if you read arnies post's what does it make my car , who the hell knows !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Steve Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 Steve, I am aware you dislike me and this is quite possibly your motivation for starting this thread, however I am dissapointed you take such a stance when I put a buyer for your in contact with you. The VX car in I am referring to does represent resonable value for money, but Tony7 went to see this car and the history of this car was witheld by the seller, and only my comprehensive (read far better than yours, or the sellers) knowledge revealed the true identity of this car. Tony7 wasted two trips to visit this guy and (I believe) had to buy a new sump for the seller as the car was set up far to low for a road car. I fell for Tony, and I feel for every HPC owner who's car is devalued by the misleading wording of the original advert. If a 210bhp VX car is only worth 12K, what is a measily 150bhp VXi worth?? - Do you get where I am coming from?? This ad, if nothing else, falsely drives down the market. This is not in the interest of owners, of whom the majority of club members comprise. The bull has to stop and anyone who posts a deliberatley misleading advert ( and this is proven in more than 1 way, but lets settle for AGE alone)deserves all they get if discovered. This is a club site, for club members to be treated with a reasonable level of respect. Its not a place for lawyers who sell dodgy cars. In his profession the seller should know better than to mislead and demonstrate such economies of truth. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM siteid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Edited by - fat arnie on 21 Apr 2002 19:27:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoid 90 Posted April 21, 2002 Author Share Posted April 21, 2002 arnie i dont dislike you i just think its wrong to post opinions of someones car that you personly have not seen,the guy has been straight as far as i can see maybe you should try to be a bit more conservative and dont make it a personal crusade to upset people you must addmit you do have a nack of upsetting people , its a small world in this buisness be carefull , maybe next time speek to the owner before judging his pride and joy ,you would get more respect that way Steve Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 Steve and Gary, To clarify: A 1995 chassis has double wishbone front suspension. A 1990 does not. A 1995 chassis has double shear lower front wishbone mounts, a 1990 does not. A 1995 chassis has revised rear radius arm fixings, a 1990 does not. A 1995 chassis has revised rear wheelarch chassis openings, a 1990 does not. A 1995 chassis has honeycombe protection, and 1990 probably does not. A 1995 has different rear suspension (bilstein) top mounts, a 1990 does not. This list is far from exhaustive. The list of people I've Pi**ed off on this forum is down to Steve Davis and Andrew Russell. Only 2 Gary! (even Jules likes me.....(or he did 'til I cloned him....) The number of people who respect my opinion and what I contribute to this club is somewhat larger I think....... I also reckon that if Andrew contacted the site administrator and pointed out that he wanted to more acccurately re-post his for sale thread and could this and the original thread be deleted he might just get a yes on that..... Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM siteid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Edited by - fat arnie on 21 Apr 2002 19:51:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny. Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 I think I'm missing something here, If Arnie was protecting HPC prices by weedling out the pretenders I'd be fully on his side. I've seen VX cars put together with various components etc. and passed off for HPC's (and advertised cheaply) and that narked me when I was thinking of selling mine, BUT!!!!!!!!!, As far as I can see Andrew has not mentioned HPC....he's merely selling a 2.0 16V 7 at the right price........no problem with that. If I were to nitpick I would have upset quite a few post '95 VX (INJECTION) owners who have told me their 7 is a HPC but to be honest I couldn't be arsed! I think there is a cross wire here somehere........good luck with the sale Andrew, and calm down Arnie. If someone were to misrepresent a car here I'd be fully with you in pointing it out. Christ I've heard of enough JPE would be's to last me a life time. Kenny Edited by - kenny on 21 Apr 2002 19:59:11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 IIRC the Vx Injection was sold as 'HPC'. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny. Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 Interesting point Paul, I do stand to be corrected, but I believed the pukka HPC's were the carbed pre 93 motors of at least 175 bhp. I thought the later 165 injection cars were called Vauxhall Caterhams and carried a 16 valve badge on nose cone rather than the HPC badge. 1995 saw the last of the HPC name as I was led to believe. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 However you look at this thread, I've had a good history lesson. I would tend to agree with Arnie's point of view because whilst alot of you are well informed over the differences between certain models, people like me aren't and we can easily be misled (not that anyone on this site would do that), or allowed to misinterpret the value of vehicles/parts for sale. Arnie's manner may have been slightly abrasive but I believe his sentiments to be genuine and for the good of ignorants like me! Thanks to all of you who continue to enlighten methumbsup.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoid 90 Posted April 21, 2002 Author Share Posted April 21, 2002 arnie i don't doubt what you contribute to this club, all i am saying is show a little respect to other people and there cars we can't all be as great and so well respected as you are and have a car that is so perfect , some people just enjoy the marque for what it is ,and sometimes would like to sell there car without it being ripped to pieces Steve Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 Arnie I've just had a read through Chris Rees book on Caterham Sevens and he seems to think the Vauxhall HPC was introduced in 1990..... Is he wrong too? Apologies WOULD seem to be in order....... ???? Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 I have spotted an number of inacccuracies in Chris Rees book before including referring to my car (although he does not mention me by name) as a JPE. As I have already said I saw the second ever HPC being built in spring 1992 at the factory. The first was the press car a few weeks before. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM siteid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Edited by - fat arnie on 21 Apr 2002 22:54:39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonycaterham Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 Oh dear, what have done? I was the one who went to look at Andrew’s car. We did go our for a test run and unfortunately on the return run the car grounded (yes it was low) and split the sump. An unfortunate event, but Andrew was very reasonable. I liked to car so said I would buy and would sort everything out. However due to the unfortunate event due diligence got lost somewhere and I neglected to check a number of areas in sufficient detail, It is not everyday you crack someone else’s sump. So I turned to blatchat for help. Arnie was one of several respondents and being aware of his considerable knowledge I sought further clarification directly. Arnie kindly responded to my email and we had a subsequent telephone conversation which was very helpful and pointed me in the right direction as to what to check, advice for which I am most grateful. The chassis was a ‘90 not ‘95 chassis as I had hoped but I must state that Andrew did not tell me it was a ’95 chassis indeed the age was not mentioned, but then again I did not ask! I really wanted a car to further develop which, as Arnie points out is more feasible with a ’95 chassis so withdrew from the sale, but gave Andrew £400 to buy an new sump which more than covered the cost. Andrew is a reasonable guy and I wish him well with his car, it was just not what I thought it was. I also would like to thank Arnie for his advice and long may it continue, blatchat is an excellent source for people like me who are inexperienced, when it comes to seven ownership and purchase, even though I have had one for a year now. I can only say I am really sorry for the trouble that I seem to have caused. Tony Edited by - tony7 on 22 Apr 2002 00:52:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Oh dear, oh dear! oh dear! Arnie You know full well that the vauxhall race series started in 1991, the cars all used the 90 design chassis ....and no other. The first of them would have been manufactured in November/December 1990 for the start of the 1991 season... Anyone buying a Vauxhall race chassis, even in 1997 would still have bought the 1990 design chassis. I have here a Vauxhall HPC road test from 1991 featuring H426 LPC in Bugatti Blue, obviously registered prior to August 1991 then?. Remember it ?? I don't know what you saw in spring 1992, do you really know? I'd be very much surprised if it was a car built a year earlier tho' Over to you Arnie smile.gif Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny. Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Not everything with a VX engine was a HPC. The race cars were advertised when new in the early nineties as "Vauxhall race cars" and ran a different chassis, whilst the road cars were badged and sold as HPC's. The HPC AFIAK stopped being labelled as such after the stock of pre 93 motors ran out in late 95. The successors with VX plenums and 165bhp reverted to being sold as Vauxhall Caterhams. After the chassis mods in '96 some VX cars were still made....these were never described as HPC's. However I have seen and also know people who have claimed to own own a HPC when in fact it is a Vauxhall Caterham....I know it's a silly point but I didn't do the badging and advertising for Caterham. If Andrews car is as nice as he says (which I'm sure it is) and I repeat he's never mentioned HPC, then I think his £12000 ask is OK considering it's self admitted history. If I were buying a used 7, age and history would be out weighed by condition, amount of good bits on it and mechanical perfection. Lots of people have advertised HPC's when they're not, Andrew hasn't advertised a HPC. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buda Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 I'm not that great on the history of the HPC or Vx's for that matter - I've got a K, but never the less should I have been buying a second hand car I would have researched the marque somewhat and know what I wanted. Without in depth knowledge however I would have to go on what the seller inferred the car was. Any further knowledge that can be gained from people who know more about something is good. Arnie obviously felt strongly that in his view the car was being misrepresented, if this is the case then he did the right thing and I for one would stand by him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny. Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Buda, As I say thre were a couple of wires crossed somewhere. I think that Arnie's comments were well meant but taken the wrong way..it's very easy to be mis-understood in typing. He's correct in everything he's said about the car and anyone after a genuine HPC should be grateful. However Andrew did advertise it as a VX 7 and there are loads of such cars out there with their spec. being outside HPC parameters. If andrew did make a small mistake it was to omit the fact that it was a '90 chassiss......something which no doubt he would of mentioned when called.....it's hard to put everything in initial ad. I don't think anyone has done anything wrong here at all....Arnie or Andrew.....so I'm still satisfied 7 owners are a great bunch. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 My car was a 94 chassis (& is now a 99 chassis) It was originally sold as an HPC (On injection) by Caterham despite the fact that it was minus one standard HPC part - the LSD - I'm told that Caterham omitted the Diff because the car was a press car. After it was rebuilt by Caterham in '99 it was sold as a VXi but still with the HPC badge on the front. Does that helpquestion.gif question.gif Ps. I agree with Arnie. Someone without the knowledge that we have may have been mislead by the omissions. I don't suggest that this was deliberate because I have no knowledge of facts first hand. It's a good spec car for the price - why not be upfront about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Just to clarify, my car, a '94 kit (registered in '95) was originally a Vxl 2.0 Injection (now on TB's) and was called an HPC. The enamel badge on the nose and the build inventory I got from Caterham supports this. Steve Mell PTM 88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 You lot seem to be hung up on the merits of a badge. Tha car that started this all off seems to be good value. A Seven, more than any other car, wears its specification and it is very difficult to hide gremlins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny. Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Don't think anyone is "hung up" about anything Peter, it's just a point of interest about the marques history that has created a few good comments.....guess that's what these forums are about. Peronally they can stick a Lada badge on my new SLR and I wouldn't lose any sleep.....well not much! Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now