Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Last night was the big night. Had everything finished and ready to turn the engine over - an ex-race R400 (K). I have the plugs removed and the fuel pump fuse out in order to crank the engine and move some oil about, prior to trying to fire it up. When I turned on the ignition the light came on and the relay's clicked (and the fuel pump whirred when I put the fuse back in). The tacho needle momentarily flicked up and then settled to 0 again. When I turned the key to the starter all that happened was that the tacho needle gave another small flicker, but absolutely no other sign of life .. not even a starter solenoid click. I can't see what I've done wrong but presumably something is wired up incorrectly. I notice on the wiring diagram that there is a brown lead (the high amperage one) going from the alternator to the back of the starter, but this then attaches to the same post as the battery lead, so I have taken this brown lead straight to the battery to save on wiring complications .. could this have an effect 🤔 Or have I miss understood and this lead goes to a different post. Any help would be most welcome since I need to get the engine running ASAP so I can then fix any leaks etc and then bed the new brake discs and pads in prior to Snetterton next Wednesday. And when I came to BC for help the site was down ❗ ❗ ❗ ❗ Why did I ever start this project 🙆🏻 ❗ Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 9 Jul 2007 00:59:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 I will test the starter by taking a live feed directly from the battery but have no reason to suspect this is faulty since it was working perfectly well previously - it's a Brise 9522 so not a K click variant. I've just confirmed with Brise that it is wired up OK. I currently have the original MBE ECU wired in. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Is your battery in tip top condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 There isn't any immobiliser function in the MBE is there 🤔 It is an ex-race engine and no immobiliser gadget was given to me when I bought it. There was, however, a short black and green wire with a spade connector on it spliced into the MFRU/ECU power feed cable (thick brown wire which I attached to the purple feed wire from the main loom as instructed on here). I cut this off because it appeared to be an after market addition to take a power feed to something else .. was I wrong 🤔 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Battery is fully charged, headlights working fine .. and I had a boost starter pack connected up to allow 30-40 seconds of good cranking to get the oil on the move. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susser Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Niftty I can only speak from memory, but AFAIK the brown wire must be the Alterator output, so putting it on the battery should be OK. There is a small wire that attaches to a spade terminal on the starter solenoid that should be live when you attempt to turn the engine over. Get a light bulb between the spade and earth to see. Provided that it's live in the start position, then there should be a click as the solenoid tries to engage. If it's not then the problem will probably be at the switch end. If it is then it could still be at the switch end ( high resistance). The flicker you get as you go to the start position will probably be the auxilliary circuits switching off during cranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 earth strap from chassis to engine left off or loose? depends on how battery neg is wired Immobiliser not set? (Vecta isolates starter solenoid as well as fuel pump and ignition) FIA switch dodgy? Got to be something simple if its that dead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 No seperate (Vecta) immobiliser fitted, just the MBE ECU. Fuel pump will run when I put the fuse back in and switch the ignition on. Earth strap from starter to battery is good, as I believe is the one on the other side from engine to chassis. Lights work fine so I assume the other earths are good. No FIA switch fitted. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 5 Jul 2007 09:46:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 It has to be starter wiring or a faulty solenoid. I would go back to basics. Check that there is +12V on the main battery lead terminal on the starter with the meter 0V also on the starter body. Next,check that when the key is turned to crank, there is +12V on the solenoid terminal. Alternatively, dab a piece of 25A wire between the battery +ve and the starter solenoid terminal to see if it operates. Be prepared for sparks and for the starter to jump into life when you do this. Car out of gear etc!!! If none of this throws any light I would suspect the starter. The tacho twitch when you turn the ignition on is normal for an MBE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Is it the mercury switch? I distubed this one time when removing the bulkhead, laid it on its side and forget to reset it. Took ages to figure what was wrong. Pressed the rubber button and I was away. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Interesting point ❗ ❗ The R400 setup I have does not appear to have an inertia switch plug, so I assumed it did not use one. I will check with CC about that. Cheers. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frying Pan Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Mercury switch doesn't prevent cranking, only fuel. I'm inclined to agree with Paul Desplandes' advice - get a piece of wire between batt +ve and starter solenoid and see what happens. Guy -----See some pictures of the build here. 12000 miles completed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Ah, thanks Guy. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Check power to ECU too I guess, which is the purple lead from the main harness, attaching to the brown lead going into the MFRU Output plug Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Pargiter Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Nifty I had a similar problem after fitting the R400 ECU and loom to my car (94 supersport). Switched the ignition on and everything else worked but when I pushed the starter button nothing happened. I tried bypassing the MFRU and it worked. After much checking of connections and wiring I found the fault. The switching circuit (white/red wire) for the MFRU starter relay is earthed through the starter button rather than powered. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Nick, You may be my saviour. So tell me, what exactly did you do to solve the problem. The WR wire feeds back into the main loom and presumably back to the ignition switch or starter button. Does this then need to be earthed at it's final destination, i.e. pushing the button or turning the key completes the circuit to earth and current flows ? Cheers, Nifty. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Pargiter Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Nifty I ditched the ignition key ages ago and now use a toggle switch and push button for starting. Originally I had a power feed from the toggle switch that went to the push button and then the WR wire from the botton. With the new ECU I removed the power feed from the toggle to the button and fitted a wire from the button to the earth point on the wiper motor housing. I'm not sure how you would do it if you still have the ignition key switch. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 I have both .. because if I didn't need the keys to start the car I'd get to a fuel station and find I couldn't open the filler 'coz the keys were at home. Key powers button, button fires engine ... .only at present they work in parallel so key also fires engine *confused* I will ditch the keys one day soon once I've devised a means of ensuring I can't forget the filler key Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 5 Jul 2007 14:30:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 will ditch the keys one day soon once I've devised a means of ensuring I can't forget the filler key Either fit an aero filler cap or attach the key to a length of cord attached to the inside of the boot Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 I have an aero ..... Do you suggest I hang my house keys outside the front door too Mark *tongue* I have been thinking of the hidden key secured in the boot trick, just never got around to doing anything more about it. I'm not really sure why I worry about locking it anyway since you can't get a fuel nozzle in nicely it's unlikely to lend itself to quick syphoning either ❗ Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Nifty If you have an immobiliser you will not need a key for the ignition just the fuel cap and I was led to believe that all you carrot crunchers left your front doors unlocked 😬 Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 It depends where you live .. I leave mine unlocked from time to time if I'm only going down the road. Unfortunately you never know when the Swaffham gang are going to be around, so trailer security is paramount. I don't have an immobiliser ... I ditched the Vecta that I did have and have never replaced it. I do have a trip fuse on the ECU though, so (when I remember) I can immobilise that way. I have thought about wiring the key ignition switch in somewhere behind the dash so I don't bang my knee on it but keep it in the circuit. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Well, the easy answer from Nick ( and PC on the phone) hasn't solved my issue, it's still dead. Further more, I cannot find my feckin multimeter ❗ ❗ ❗ *mad* Can anyone advise me as to where the white and black wires that were on the 1400 SS coil need to go to, at the moment the connector onto the old coil is sitting idle. From reading the 1400 wiring diagram this connector would appear to be an earth and therefore does not need to plug to anything (since the spade connector has two wires attached and therefore a circuit is completed even if the spade is not attached to anything - if that makes sense). I think I may have a wiring mistake in the engine to main loom connector since I had to replace the connector on the R400 engine loom for one that matched the car loom, and hence it had to be rewired .. and of course all the wires aren't the same and the old CC wiring info is sparse, to say the least. I'm now getting thoroughly cheesed of ❗ ❗ *thumbdown* 🙆🏻 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Nick, YHM. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Ohmigod! Nifty,this doesn't auger too well for my own attempt to get the engine you didn't buy into my SV, does it? No-one has less skill with car electrics than me. Maybe I'll just stick the lot on a trailer and head on up to John Howe's very inviting Pit Lane establishment after all. Otherwise I'll be doing the September Anniversary gig in an Elise....... Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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