Apollo Tank - I'm just about to give up!

[Brucey]

I decided to fit a second hand Apollo Tank to my 1993 1400kss during the cars annual service. I had reservations about the strength of the tank around the hose inlets, so I got additional gussets welded in around this area.

 

I removed the foam in the sump (which was o.k after 2 years running on semi synthetic oil)

 

I machined the 'sticky out' bit off the block and fitted the bottom tank location plate.

 

After a trial fit, I also had to remove the plastic cover on the back of the Rover Alternator.

 

On fitting the sandwich plate and hoses, the most clearance I can get between the angled short hose and the alternator is about 2mm. This means I would have to remove the sandwhich plate and oil to change the alternater belt (already the longest one I can get away with)

 

The Apollo Tank hoses will still put strain on the tank unions and run uncomfortably close to the bottom pulley and alternator belt. The tank itself will restrict access to the front of the engine.

 

In short, after spending 2 days fitting the bits and nursing all the cuts, I think it is poorly designed and an accident waiting to happen. I'm seriously considering removing the whole lot before I waste 7l of oil.

 

My question is....

Shall I put the foam baffle back in the sump? (I have a new one). I did the DVA mod to the gaskit (even though it already had about 5 x 5mm holes in that side of the gaskit). The main reason for fitting the Apollo in the first place was to enable me to loose the foam baffle.

 

The car is used on the road with the odd handling day (well 1 in 3 years actually) and is shod with Yoko A 539 tyres. It seems to have survived the last 14 years and 45K miles without an Apollo so if it isn't broke............

 

Any advice appreciated,

 

Bruce.

[FlymoFraser]

Brucey

 

I share your pain, I do now have a functioning Apollo after about 5 goes and help from friends. It is tight but possible, (however I'm not clear if the 1400 has anything different to a 1600 to make it harder). Best thing I found was to look at some good installations which helped me get my head around where everything needed to go.

 

The only real alternative is a dry sump but this is expensive.

 

There is something called a Hellier baffle but I think it's fair to say the jury is still out on whether that works or not.

 

The other way of looking at it is, how much is a good second hand 1400 motor, and then do the sums to work out if you just await a big bang and how likely that is to come quickly. On A539s you may not have problems, I didn't sprinting at Aintree but did on a test day at Curborough (which was when I decided on the Apollo route).

 

Not sure that helps but I don't think you will get a definitive answer, just lots of "depends on"

 

Good luck

 

R287 Mobile Jaffa Cake- It's black at both ends with a smashing orangey bit in the middle here

[mav]

Bruce,

 

Get one of your locals to come and give you a hand / advice. I've not had to touch the cover on the back of the alternator on any of the installs I've done.

 

On fitting the sandwich plate and hoses, the most clearance I can get between the angled short hose and the alternator is about 2mm. This means I would have to remove the sandwhich plate and oil to change the alternater belt (already the longest one I can get away with)

---

 

No, you don't! you simply take the belt off and thread it over the tank and pipes, remove the breather from the top of the tank and the belt just slips off.

[SLR No.77]

Bruce - I fitted an Apollo kit to a 1400 with no issues. I'm not sure why you would need to remove the plastic cover on the rear of the alternator though Yes the clearance is very tight, but when all fitted it's fine and perfectly safe.

 

Mav - I think you're misunderstanding Bruce. The 1400s had a physically bigger alternator than the newer cars - clearance is very tight making minimal availbility for adjustment at the belt when the Apollo plumbing is fitted. However, the oil is changed more frequently than the belt therefore not an issue to plan it in advance.

 

Stu.

 

www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬

 

 

[mav]

then Stu, the Alt on the older EU2 cars I've done was the same on the 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8 I've done installs on, all with no issues, and a belt change can be completed easily?

[Brucey]

Thanks for your replies so far guys

 

Stu is right, it's an adjustment issue with the alternator.

 

There is no way the sandwich plate is going to fit with the plastic cover on the alternator unless I cut a chunk off it first. This would of course meen removing the alternator for the 4th time!

 

If I decide to ditch the Apollo, does anyone run a standard wet sump with no foam baffle? or should I spend another 2 hours with my head in a puddle of oil fitting a new foam baffle?

 

My biggest issue is introducing something on the car which is potentially unreliable. I'm comming to the conclusion the benifits don't justify the reliability risk.

 

Bruce.

[Mick Day]

The old "1.4" alternator was a problem on my car & I had to modify the cover. in the end I changed the alternator to the later smaller one. Another alternative is an alternator from Brise which is smaller still.

[Englishmaninwales]

Yep, the alternator cover needs to come off on a 1400. That is not a problem as Ive run like that for 3 years. With a bit of fiddling, the apollo is a straight forward fitting to a 1400. The other little mod is to grind a Vee in the top of the alternator adjusting bracket so the hoses have a better run and not in contact with the bracket.

 

Malcolm

 

 

[SLR No.77]

Now I understand why the cover needs removing or modifying. My 1400 had an oil cooler fitted prior to fitting the Apollo therefore had a sandwich plate fitted from new

Also, the cooler was supplied with my car from new and included a small piece (maybe 2") of the type of edge trim that is sometimes used on the edge of the scuttle. This was fitted to the alternator bracket where the hoses touched, and the whole lot tie wrapped securely. I transferred this trim to the Apollo install.

 

Mav - most EU2 1400s definately have a bigger alternator than the later EU2 1600/1800s. It's so big that if removing the engine it's easier to do it with the alternator still attached than to try to wriggle the alternator out whilst the engine is still in!

 

Stu.

 

www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬

 

 

[mav]

Blimey. I was lucky then, the alt must have been swapped out 😶‍🌫️

[Brucey]

O.k. so now I'm wavering! I'm already 3/4 of the way there. I'll file a bit off the alternator mounting bracket tonight so at least the sandwich plate sits nice and flat on the oil filter housing and decide if to continue.

 

Haven't got much to loose as it's raining anyway.

 

Still no response to my question about running without the foam baffle and no Apollo.

 

Bruce.

[Mick Day]

Brucey

 

FWIW. If I was going back to a wet sump I'd remove the foam, fit a Helier baffle & drill the sump gasket to allow maximum drain back to the pick-up. However as you say you're nearly there & it'll probably not stop raining.....................

[MAK]

Bruce

Not surprised you haven't received definitive answers, because the results seem to be varaible.

 

Mine is an 1800 SV (not VVC) - so more space to work on but.

 

I tried with an apollo and foam first.- my first problem was that it took an age of cranking to get oil pressure after filling up with oil.

 

Plus at cold start up I would get top end rattle suggesting no oil near the valves/cam/hydraulic tappets.

 

So I removed it all.

Then I tried with the Hellier baffle, No foam and No apollo- and actually found I got more surge in corners not less.

So fresh foam went back in, the baffle is in a cardboard box somewhere, and I finally re-fitted the apollo with a non return valve in the breather from the top of the apollo to the cam cover, which I believe retains some oil in the head and prevents the rattle at start up.

 

I still take care to fill the apollo separately when doing oil changes to minimise time taken to get oil pressure after an oil change. But this solution -

Apollo, Non return valve, Foam and No baffle works OK for me.

Though I still see some loss of oil pressure when turning hard for righ hand corners (eg roundabouts)

I have 048 tyres, and I have a mechanical oil pressure gauge set up which is an improvment on the standard CC device.

 

If you search the archives you will see that others have quite different experiences -great!

 

Malcolm

[pinkprincess]

Hi Bruce, YHM

 

RW04FUN

[Nifty]

When I fitted my Apollo I put a piece of rubber hose (slit down it's length) over the alternator bracket and cable tied the pipes to this (just as Stu has described).

I'm not sure I'd cut any of the alternator bracket away .. there isn't that much to it anyway.

 

I also have a Brise alternator which gives you much more room to play with, as well as a more reliable alternator (in my experience). Even before the Apollo was fitted I had trouble with the alternator making contact with the chassis rail if the engine rocked on it's mounts - the smaller Brise alternator cured this too.

 

I also fitted a spare alternator belt over the pipes and cable tied it out of the way up the top of the chassis, so that in the event of a belt failure I could simply run the new belt down the pipes and slip it on the pulleys - 5 minute job on the roadside.

Then next time I did an oil change I would remove the sandwich plate and put another spare belt on (I never actually had to do this).

 

I would certainly prefer to run on track with an Apollo than without .. unless dry-sumped, as I am now.

 

Keep off the straight and narrow 😬

 

Edited by - Nifty on 3 Jul 2007 18:18:57

[Brucey]

Some interesting stuff guys

 

After filing a bit out of the alternator bracket, I'm a little happier with the fit at the sanwich plate.

 

I've attached the hoses at both ends (after making a slight adjustment to the horn positions) and located the tank.

 

So I guess I'll give it a try.

 

Rich, i considered rotating the sandwich plate 180 deg, but the pipes seem just a tad too low for comfort. Yours does look like a very neat installation though.

 

If the installation is successful, does anyone have the price, part no and contact details where I might get a 1 way valve?

 

I'll definately crank the engine over with the plugs out until I get oil pressure.

 

Bruce.

[mav]

There is info in the archives, but I'm sure Think Auto will be able to help re the valve you are talking about.