Pace K series dry sump kits

[John]

Whats the latest on this? Anyone know when they will be available and roughly how much?

 

John

[John]

Anyone?

[Geoff Dixon]

My understanding is that the PACE unit is very nearly ready. The bits and pieces have been delivered to RatRace for trial fitting to Andy Murphy's car. Was at RatRace at the weekend and they assured me that there will be some messing around to get all the bits to fit.Andy is then going to give the car and dry sump a period of time to test everything then if all goes according to plan that should be it. Just a few more weeks to wait.

[murph7355]

The prototype should be being dyno tested on Sunday.

 

Installation in a car will then take place next week.

 

Hopefully it'll then get track tested next Saturday, and get some serious road miles on it that weekend and the one after.

 

I'm not entirely sure how far Pace will want to go on the testing front before general release, but would have thought that this should cover it. So they're probably about 2-3 weeks away.

 

They have quite a few bits ready to go as and when all is proven to be OK so production shouldn't be an issue for the first few systems.

 

As to price, don't know definites yet. There are a few other fabrications that have been added to the system, but as a guide I think we're still looking at about 1k for a kit. It'll obviously be Pace's call though.

 

I'll be discussing pricing with them in much more detail once we know the system works, but have primed them with questions along these lines already.

 

If you want me to add you to the Dry Sump Interest List I will. However as the car will (hopefully) be ready next week I'll probably do a post on here (and the se7ens list) then, confirming the details and giving some photos...

 

PS All who have seen the various components have been impressed by them. So if it works as well as it looks, we should be onto a winner.

 

PPS SV systems will be slightly later as a different engine mount will be needed. This scenario is also being taken care of.

 

Edited by - Andy Murphy on 19 Apr 2002 17:51:14

[New Barbie]

I'm not sure if I recall right but wasn't there a possibility part of this kit could compliment the standard Caterham system ?

 

I'm thinking in terms of a better sump/pump setup - the Caterham system is known to have fun failing at the wrong time.

 

[V7 SLR]

The mode of failure on the Caterham pump is when the belt drops off. This only seems to happen at very high revs, i.e. approaching 8500 or above. As the Pace kit uses an entirely belt driven pump for both stages, I can only see this as potentially exacerbating this problem. At least with the Caterham setup you have a pressure pump operational even after you lose the scavenge pump belt. If you take a tip of some people's installations and wire up a micrswitch to the belt tensioner pulley then you'll get a second or so advance warning before your tank is too empty to supply the pressure pump. With an entirely belt driven affair, you don't get any warning. You just get a trail of engine parts behind you.

 

Not tempting fate, but I've had 14,000 successful Caterham-Dry-Sump miles to date. ev limit's set to 8100rpm though.

[murph7355]

V7s right about the Caterham failures. This isn't the strongest reason (in my mind) for going the Pace route.

 

There's a suspicion that these failures aren't helped by the positioning of the pump, so Pace have designed theirs to sit in a different location (new engine mount). Pace have also noted that they can provide wider belts (and pulley) for stratospheric rev applications?

 

I've spoken at length to Pace about the use of the internal engine pump and they are adamant that it isn't a problem. They would, of course, say this. But their client list and experience in this field is such that I'm inclined to believe them. They could also have left the internal pump as an integral part of the system but decided not to. Time will tell.

 

The big advantage with this system will be cost. It's going to be significantly lower (700 quid or so) than Caterham's system. Might have a double knock on that Caterham drop their price once this system is proven...all this would be for nought if you get an engine failure as a direct result, but I'm confident enough about this to get the prototype strapped to my engine.

 

Another advantage, from my pov anyway, is that you do away with a dipstick to check oil levels. I don't think I've ever managed to get a decent reading from any K series dipstick!

 

The non-bellhousing tank might be a disadvantage for those where space in the engine bay is tight. Not an issue for me and I would think you could use the bell housing tank with the rest of the Pace bits if you really wanted - though its capacity is limited, it's expensive and I would have thought it's a bugger to clean. Some of the others on our Pace list have found a tank (designed by a guy doing a Duratec install I think) that sits in front of the engine. Looks very nice (if you don't mind additional weight that far up front).

 

Pace can also add stages to your system should you want to do stuff like scavenge from different parts of the engine (additional cost though smile.gif).

 

Still keeping fingers crossed for next week and will let y'all know what happens when it's all back together.

[V7 SLR]

In a rush, so not very well constructed sentences... sorry...

 

Pace tank positioning may not be too much of a problem, depending on whether you have a heater or not. See Alex Wong's dry sump tank placement. Superb. The Pace system can have a larger tank than Caterham which, although I don't personally believe mine is limited in practice, can only be a good thing.

 

Don't believe the Pace "belt-only" idea is a particularly bad one, particularly as they're using wider belts. Might see if there's an "upgrade" for my Caterham belt. Seems like an excellent idea.

 

Pace are industry leaders for this, so I'd trust them, particularly at their originally touted cost.

 

Extra scavenging an excellent idea. I wonder if there's a cheaper way though. Can you drill the K head to drain better from the left hand side? Would be interested to know if Pace intend to seal the oil system like Caterham do. I also wonder what would happen if you unseal the Caterham one. Wouldn't this lead to oil being sucked through to the sump pan quicker? I vaguely remember a thread here regarding that.

 

The Caterham dry sump system doesn't have a normal dipstick. It has one mounted in the filler of the bell/tank housing, although it's a chocolate kettle IMO. Better to slightly overfill and let it level itself off by chucking excess into the catch tank. Worked for me so far.