dickbowyer Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Feel a bit of a numpty.... Picked up my new Superlight SV R400 from Caterham this afternoon. Few minor niggles that they are going to sort at 1st service so otherwise well pleased until I tried to put some unleaded petrol in the car. Visited Texaco, Tesco and a Somerfield and none of the unleaded nozzles would fit in the aero filler. Nozzle fitted in the upper larger cut out but would just not go through flapped (and flapping) inner orifice. Am I just being stupid or can this be an issue? Dick Picking up Prisoner SUPERLIGHT SV R400......L7 SOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Dick, Congrats on collecting your new car 😬 you are goona love it 😬 I have had this problem, just have to get nozzle at the right angle and fill slowly 😬 i have got the nozzle stuck a few times 😳 and had to wriggle it out 😳 Enjoy Mark R 400 Superlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 1st time I filled up got nozzle well stuck, still gave others customers a laugh to see me struggle to pull out, which upon release almost sent me flying. At 1st service was informed, without asking, that the flappy bit was going to be removed - can't remember why now, just assume without flap it doesn't encourage you to push in quite so far. Could have phrased that better but it is Saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitley Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Is this what you mean Malcolm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Yes the spring loaded flap does cause some filling problems. The metro filler was designed with a much bigger filler so the angle was not as accute on the 7. Some newer pump nozzles are even worse, the answer is to remove the flap. R500 260 BHP Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Cr*p on a bike! I have the prototype new-style aero-filler surround on my car (enlarged 12 o'clock cut out) - I was at the bleeding-edge of this design.... and they made me a try-out to solve the issue I came to the conclusion that the filler necks are hand-built and that the depth of the flaps varies - mine was too deep to be actuated - so I had to grind the bugger out in the end. FWIW, if anyone wants a limited-edition - pre-mod filler surround (without the enlarged cut-out), I've still got mine. Can't be too many around... 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Equipe™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Wasn't quite thinking of those flappy bits Tony. Still, if if helps entry can't be a bad thing. 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 I almost gave the car away in mainland Europe last summer when trying to fill up the damn thing! I had just fitted the aero-style filler. Was fine in the UK, but in France and Italy - jeeeez - would take about 25 minutes to fill up (amazing how heavy those hoses are after that long!!) Had exactly the same experiance as you Malcom, and nicely scratched the nice new ali filler getting the bloody thing out........couldn't believe it - £70 plus and it just would not work - I was furious. Ended up borrowing screw-drivers in petrol stations until managed to find a piece of wire to hold open that sodding flap whilst I was trying to fill up, but boy did it drive me mad. Worse are those nozzles with a brass collar om them that prevents the nozzle going in even as far as the flap (some would just touch it) - or those saw-tooth catches on the underside of the nozzle casting which get caught in the aero filler.....anywa, followed the advice from here and smashed the flap out (literally - but with the filler tube out of the car) and it all works fine now. I'm happier with it now, but for a while I was ready to just chuck a match in..... 😬 www.mycaterham.com here Videos here 100,000 miles car Edited by - angus&tessa on 26 May 2007 23:48:31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 I have removed the flap from my filler neck but still can't fill at any decent pace because the curvature and narrowing bore of the neck design prevent the nozzle going far enough down into the neck to prevent splash back at a decent fill speed. The problem has mainly risen from the fact that the filler nozzles have been changed to a design with less curvature on them. After the 50th Anniversary event is over Ernie and I will be considering designing/manufacturing a replacment filler neck to overcome this problem. In the meantime it might be worth doing what OBNS does and have a plasic fuel funnel tied to the bottom of the rollbar back stays, under the boot cover. Just whip it out when you want to fill up and poke the end down the filler neck until flap is open and then poke fuel nozzle into funnel. It may look stupid but can save a lot of aggression and embarrassment. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 but still can't fill at any decent pace because the curvature and narrowing bore of the neck design prevent the nozzle going far enough down into the neck to prevent splash back at a decent fill speed.My car is of 1994 vintage with a standard cap. It always irritated me how fuel would spit back no matter how carefully I tried to fill. Worse still in Europe as the cut off seems to activate much earlier. So when I rebuilt the car I had the tank modified with an internal filler in the boot. 1st time I filled it I inserted the nozzle, sqeezed hard........................& got a face full of petrol! After a few beers I deduced that the problem of blowback is more to do with the end compartment around the fuel pump (aka swrl pot effect). Because the tank isn't deep the fuel goes straight in & bounces off the residual fuel & back up the filler neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerBrain Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 One of my local Shell garages seems to have changed their pump nozzle design, which worked really well with the standard fuel filler on my 7. I've suffered petrol splashing back up the filler neck, getting the nozzle jammed in the filler at strange angles, etc, etc. cheers, Darren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 I suffered the sane problems with mine until I removed the flap here. Ade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Interesting - flap looks different from mine - mine much flatter ('95 car) - yours looked more like a cup..? www.mycaterham.com here Videos here 100,000 miles car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 IIRC this has been a problem reported on here for ages now, so why haven't CC done something to solve the problem? Why (on a new build car) wait until the 1st service to fix it when they know it is wrong? Jut seems shoddy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Angus, My car is a '95 as well and mine had the "cup" type valve, though if I remember correctly the cup is upside down. Mick, After a few beers I deduced that the problem of blowback is more to do with the end compartment around the fuel pump (aka swrl pot effect). If you look at the currrent filler neck profile it has a narrowing just as it bends round to the vertical. With the new, less curved nozzles, they will not pass the restriction but the end of the nozzle catches on it. When the fuel comes out of the nozzle it hits the constricted part at such an angle that it is almost like spraying it at a perpendicular surface and so the reflected fuel is heading right back up the filler. It also has the effect of creating back pressure up the nozzle causing the auto cut-off to trigger. By pulling the nozzle out of the filler neck a little it can help my allowing a greater openning of the trigger before back pressure cut-off. Ernie and I have looked at this already but unfortunately due to work commitments and the 50th Anniversary event we don't have time to sort something for this blatting season. What it really needs is a wider bore pipe that allows the fuel to "deflect"" off the filler wall down into the tank. Of course, it isn't quite that simple because it needs to be manufactured with a vent etc. I may take mine off tomorrow and photograph it to show what I believe the problem to be. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 27 May 2007 15:55:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Nifty I should have said that I got blowback with the old filler & yes I had to do the same & withdraw the nozzle a little to stop the cut-off. I did think having a straight shot into the tank would cure the blowback but now it just bounces off the bottom of the tank if I squeeze the trigger too much. However it doesn't cut-off at Euro pumps & that can be a bonus. At least with the in-boot filler I'm not tempted to fit an aero-cap & it does free up a little boot space. There is a whole science in developing fuel tanks that can be filled with a full squeeze of the trigger, don't blowback & cut-off precisely when they are truly full. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrypike Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 dick congratulations 😬 best solution is the arch endurance tank which has a big screw top under the O/S rear hood. unfortunately it occupies most of the boot, but does give huge range to answer your other thread, surely dry sump is the only answer with goodwood on the doorstep i'm going to be working the top paddock at FoS friday: do drop by jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickbowyer Posted May 27, 2007 Author Share Posted May 27, 2007 Hi Jerry Thanks for advice. Duratecs allegedly don't need dry sump or Apollo tank 🤔. Hope to be doing first track day at Goodwood in July as long as not to many dBs. (That reminds me must pop up there and get checked so don't annoy residents of Summersdale 😬). Will try to get to FoS on 22nd June but on call so hopefully will see you there rather than in Resus. Dick Prisoner Superlight SV R400 Edited by - dickbowyer on 27 May 2007 20:03:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 As for technique, I barely poke the gun into the orifice - I can clearly see the end of the gun and the volume of flow. Definitely can't use full chat on the gun, but it does fill at an adequate pace. You do need to keep an eye on it though - and manually kill the flow when the froth comes back up the pipe. It's much the same situation for getting petrol into the seven too... 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Equipe™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 It's much the same situation for getting petrol into the seven too... Do you have any pictures of what you were describing previously 🤔 😬 😬 😬 😬 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTD Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Funnel in the boot, with a bungee cord to hold it in place - otherwise a right pain in the pipe! 😔 Used to take me 20 minutes to fill up on the continent! Now with added LSD here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 When I did the Liege Targa Rally, there was no superunleaded in some of the remote areas and 4* was closer in octane but the nozzles were too big. I kept a dinner fork in the handbrake recess. This was so that I could use the handle to hold the flap open whilst I trickelled 4* into the tank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setok Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I believe I have the original normal cap and the technique for getting as high a rate as possible is, as people have been saying, not to put the nozzle all the way in, and also to keep it at an angle. Not straight down or up but to rotate the whole nozzle to a 90 degree angle and also direct the flow towards the walls. This might be completely ridiculous and wrong, but it seems like that way I can push the fuel in at a quicker pace than normal, and it's easier to hold it that way on a 7 too! Basically the idea is to get the fuel twirling round the edges of the pipe as that way it won't throw back quite as much. I still can't give it a fuel blast, but it's a bigger trickle --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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