lowlander Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Hi there, Can someone please advise what changes there have been to the design of the de-dion chassis over the years. I'm looking specifically at the S3 chassis and not the wider CSR / SV chassis. I am aware that the current chassis manufactured by caged in arond 12% stiffer than before but with my budget i'l be looking at an older second hand car. Thanks and all the best. Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Normuss Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 My knowledge isn't great but I'll make a start. I think the front suspension pick up points changed around '95, there's been a short cockpit variant which was optional at one point but I *think* around '95 onwards they're all what was 'long cockpit'. The Hand brake has moved from under the dash to the transmission tunnel and there's more than one design of de-dion tube, one with mounting bolts that go through it, one where they're welded on the underside of the tube. Some have 1 removeable engine diagonal, some have both. VX HPC - Loud and proud here Watch out, whatever hits the fan will not be distributed evenly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Bailey Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 redesign of the pedal box upper tubes/ chassis diagonals around 2002 new perforated sections (like the front crossmember) from 2002 > If It aint yellow, wonky and wobbly................ 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen grant Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 ...and indeed some have no removable engine diagonal. stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Some rough bits of info - probably all wrong anyway! '89 - de-dion chassis changes, particularly to floor of engine bay (the Y shaped tubes appeared roughly now) and tidying up around the short section. trunnions changed to spherical joint and tubular wishbones I think about 92 '96 - the comfy chassis with modified front geometry - separate brackets for top wishbone and shock absorber '97 - sharpening up of the '96 chassis - wishbone and shock absorber share a bolt and bracket I think) ** I think it's the otherway round - the shared bracket is '96 I think. removable diagonal was mainly for fitting the 2.0 Vx engine. Not essential but made life easier. Edited by - Alex Wong on 27 Mar 2007 13:44:53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Normuss Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 When did they introduce the honeycomb side panels 🤔 VX HPC - Loud and proud here Watch out, whatever hits the fan will not be distributed evenly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lynch Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Here's what's on my '95 Ex racer Dedion is bolt through Long single bolt for Upper Wishbone and Damper Top mounting Rear Anti roll bar mount is overslung Long Passenger Footwell Handbrake under dash Pedal Box cover was in three pieces (and let rain in the footwell). No cockpit floor diagonals (Predates Watts Linkage) Oh and as mentioned below, Front of A Frame is through Chassis not lugged below David 1.4K SS 😬 here 'You've got be in it to lose it !' Edited by - David Lynch on 27 Mar 2007 21:48:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopQ1967 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Rear low A-frame suspension pickup points moved from the rear to under the car during 1996-2001, I beleive. At least this is for 1999 the case. This is important as it is a pick-up point for the side inpact bar as well. Regards Quirin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 There have indeed been a lot of changes . . . the funny thing is that nobody, absolutely nobody, knows exactly what changes were made when, and which chassis featured which changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 And then there are the specials that people have had made like removable diagonals in chassis that should not have. R500 260 BHP Mango Madness CAR NO-37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molecular--Bob Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 1990-1991ish de-dion has 2 diagonal arms rather than an A-frame, and has antirollbar mounted at rear of chassis, and a narrow bracket on the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 There have indeed been a lot of changes . . . the funny thing is that nobody, absolutely nobody, knows exactly what changes were made when, and which chassis featured which changes. Neil might know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Lowlander, From a buyer perspective, the truth is that the differences are all small. ECR's '89 chassis still outruns most new chassis'd cars. The 96 does roll alot in corners but a stiffer ARB fixes that. I drove PP's 96 1.6K after it had a stiffer ARB and it was seriously good. Before the ARB was stiffened, it did roll alot. From '97 onwards, the changes have been small, but a well set up early chassis is still going to be good. A seven is a seven is a seven. I'm not sure when the watts linkage appeared, or when the rear ARB went from over the diff to under the diff. Mine (97)has had been retroconverted for both although I've not fitted the watts linkage. IMO the underslung ARB is an improvement, being bolted to the chassis, rather than folded ali. Arch can update some aspect of a chassis - eg changing the wishbone brackets, reinforcing the diff mountings. Is the current chassis really manufactured by Caged? Edited by - Alex Wong on 27 Mar 2007 13:53:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Neil might know. No he doesn't . .. nor his brother. I've asked them. Nothing's ever been documented, the chassis's just evolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 As Alex say's my car before getting a rear ARB and fitting a stiffer front rolled like an ocean liner 😳 Much better now though 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 1989/90 was a major change where among several other things the rear upper damper mounts changed from the live axle type to a concealed type. Early De-dion cars had them exposed. There were lots of other changes that year and was why I delayed my purchase a short while to await the later version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Part of the improvements introduced around 1996 was the redesign of the front suspension wishbone mounting points. This changed the geometry to give some ANTI DIVE effect. This means the front of the car does not compress down so much under braking. 6SpeedManual *tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 My car is a 1990 dedion and it has two diagonal bars to the rear axle, the front top arm is the + shape and the lower uses trunions. Is it possible to change my front suspension to the newer tube style as the geometry is set with no adjustment for camber? X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Mcalvert Posted March 31, 2007 Leadership Team Share Posted March 31, 2007 Phil - yes it is - I had James Whiting do this for me a couple of years ago. Oh, and you have Blatmail. Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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