viperbl Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Hi Guys, Got a problem with my seven and wondered if anyone had any suggestions as to what I might be. Caterham Road Sport 1800 (140bhp) Rover K Series, 1999 It first happened at a recent track day where I had some coolant come out, the car was hot and was after a few hours with no problems. What I have done so far, replaced the overflow tank cap, drained the full system, replaced it with 50/50 coolant/water up to the coolant level indicator. Started engine, when getting hot squeezed the pipes to try and get rid of air locks. When the water is reaching 90degrees the overflow tank is filling up, and it seems a little frothy at the top. The fan kicked in and then the water started to escape out of the header tank cap. I turned it off. I left it for 3 hours and just returned to have a look; the water is still in the header tank. I pressed the large pipe that goes into the top of the radiator; I would say it seems empty, squeezes very easily. I should also mention I tried to squeeze this pipe again just before I turned it off and it was solid, lot of pressure in it. I could not squeeze it much. Thanks guys! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 you might have an airlock somewhere. I recently replaced the coolant and to make sure I did not have any air locks, I did not screw the cap back on the header tank and waited for the engine to warm up and checked that the water outlet to the header tank was a constant flow. Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Edited by - jackb_ms on 23 Feb 2007 22:27:59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Assuming there are no mechanical issues, such as HG on the way out, it is a pound to a penny you have an air lock. The following are points you could try. Take the small bore pipe that runs from plenum to water bottle and run an airline back up the pipe to the plenum. When you have finished, assuming water is in the system, water should then flow out of this pipe - refit. With the car on the floor, get tough with the bottom hose. It comes up from the bottom of the radiator and then turns for the J-tube. This is a place where it can get an airlock (especially it is silicone, as they tend to be a little longer in this leg than the rubber hoses). You need to distort the hose so the the bend is lower than the j-tube, which in turn will allow any trapped air bubble to rise and pop up in the water bottle. With the water bottle cap fitted, jack the front of the car as high as you can get it, so that the bleedscrew on top of the radiator is the highest point in the cooling system remove radiator screw and fill radiator through this small opening, replace screw. Before trying any of these suggestions, if you have a heater, make sure you have the pull switch in the open position i.e. pulled out JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Hopefully just air that is still in the system - you could fit a bleed tee in the top heater hose (you do not say if you already have one, or indeed a heater?) which is more likely to assist in clearing the air. Hopefully it's not exhaust gases getting into your system (suggeting HG failure). I would look to an airlock solution first before worrying about HG issues but take care if you are driving the car. There is an awful lot in the archives on airlocks and bleeding just search for 'airlock' Paul Now DVA Powered SL No.174 Member No.109xx Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperbl Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Thanks for your ideas guys. I checked this morning, header tank was still full to the top. I opened the nut on the top of that radiator and took off the header tank cap, it flowed back down into the system ok. I then filled it back up and followed your instructions John with being tough with that pipe and jacking the car way up at the front etc ... Also, I have a heater but no bleed tee. As the car heated everything looked fine, but just after the fan kicked in it started to fill up the header tank, 5 mins after that it was starting to come out the cap again ☹️ I would also say the oil temp looked a little high to me, just under 80 degree's... assuming the temp sender is correct. This is with it sitting idling, and its not that warm this afternoon here. Cheers Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 ☹️ Can you smell any exhaust fumes in the header tank (particularly when you release the pressure first time)? If its very evident it would seem to suggest that you have a HG problem developing and worth getting tested for at a garage. Might be worth getting the tank pressure tested anyway. I know its obvious but have you checked that all the hoses are tight (both sides of the TS) and there is no possibility that air could be entering the system anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 There is 100% certainty that you have air in the system a very well documented K problem Search the Archive It can and will be a bugger to get out. 😶🌫️ jj N.I. L7C AR. Membership No.3927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Might be worth looking into ...here No affiliation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperbl Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 For 5 quid, its worth a purchase! thanks! Lets try this next week and see if I can't solve this issue! Cheers guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Scott Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Hi Rich, Are you still struggling with overheating ☹️ As I said I changed all the hoses on my 7 to silicon over the winter and think I’ve developed the knack of getting all the air out of the system If you want to pop around over the weekend we can get your car in the garage and have a look at it. Just drop me a mail, or a text, if you want to come around. Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperbl Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Cheers Mike! That sounds like a plan to me! Cheers! Sat morning maybe? I have taken that heater out of the equation as well (who needs a heater anyway , extra weight eh!) Hopefully should have the bleed tee by then also … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Scott Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Hi Rich, I need to check with SWMBO, but Sat morning should be OK. If you’ve taken the heater out you shouldn’t need the bleed tee, not if you do it the Scotty way 😬 😬 😬 I’ll drop you an e-mail direct to sort out times. Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 If there's no air in the system, you could have a faulty thermostat? Semper in excreta solum profundum variat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperbl Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Well the radiator is getting hot, so would that suggest that the thermostat was open? Although I have to say, I took it out for a little drive and the water temp was staying quite low, around 40 ish, and did not climb until I built up some RPM ... Would this maybe suggest that the thermostat was not closing to allow the water around the engine to get up to temp? Maybe is stuck open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 If it was stuck open, it wouldn't cause your engine to overheat. I'm presuming your car is overheating if it's blowing water past the header tank cap? Semper in excreta solum profundum variat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperbl Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 Thanks for your help guys, It looks like it is a HG related issue so I am going to replace it this week hopefully. Got the good old Haynes manual but any gottcha's that I should look out for ? I believe I may have to change the dowels as these may be plastic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Make sure you check your liner heights, if these are not 4-5 thou proud of the block, the failure will repeat itself. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperbl Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 Cheers Oily ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 And don't forget to check the length of the metal dowels. They may be too long. Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperbl Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 Cheers CageyH... Getting there, but just realised I need a camshaft locking tool ☹️ that’s on tomorrows shopping list now! Should I use any kind of sealant around the HG or Cylinder head cover before I refit? Is it worth taking the inlet/exhaust manifold off? I am thinking this is extra work but will help to minimise the change of rocking the engine block after the engine bolts are out. Cheers Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 You wont get the head off with the exhaust manifold attached, but leave the inlet plenum in place, while the head is off, take the ooportunity to shorten the exhaust studs, this will make exhaust manifold removal/installation easier. You may find that the manfold doesnt come right off until you lift the head. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Scott Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Hi Rich, I tried to e-mail you the Rover manual for the K series but you may not have got it (17MB); I’ll bring along the relevant bit tonight. Regarding the head bolt torques, the manual says tighten to 20Nm, then a further 360 deg turn, in 2 stages of 180 deg each. It might be worth checking with Oily but I think I’ve read somewhere that you may have to replace the long (through the block) head bolts if they have stretched. I’m sure he’ll put you right on this. Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperbl Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 Thanks guys, makes more sense, 15 ftlb is 20nm, so maybe I have read it wrong as 6nm... Thats good news then, maybe I can borrow your torque wrench then if thats ok Mike? Yours starts from 10NM if I remember correctly? I got the full gasket pack from Paul yesterday along with a set of bolts ... I got stuck last night with not having the Camshaft sprocket locking kit, but I will see if I can borrow pauls for a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Scott Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Hi Rich, I’ll bring my torque wrench along tonight. Do you need transport to the Crosby? If yes drop me a text with your address. Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperbl Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 Thanks for all your help guys. I have just been out for a drive after replacing the head gasket, and all seems to be in order and working, although I did check the liners and most where 2 or below and one was 0 (the one next to where the gasket gave way). So, I guess I might get a few more miles out of the car and then what will I need to have done to get the liners back up to the correct height??? Can I take the block and head off and give this to someone to skim? Couple of others things, The oil pressure seems to be very low, infact the needle hardly moves (I noticed this before as well), so not sure if its a faulty sensor or not? Also, after speaking to the previous owner, the thermostat has had some holes drilled into it, because of this, The water temp is low on normal driving, say 30/50ish degrees. Is this ok to run it like this?? Cheers Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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