Bloggsy Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 My lovely new (10 years old), green 7 is currently wearing 16" HPC alloys and Falken ZE-512 205/45/16 tyres. It (do people normally give their 7's a name?) is about as standard as they come, without adjustable platforms or an apollo. A lot of the talk on here seems to imply that 16" wheels are not the best and that 13"/14" are a better bet, with a better & cheaper range of suitable tyres. I have also gained the impression that without adjustable platforms I have to be careful of the ride height, and that without an apollo/dry sump I would be risking engine problems should I ever try to exploit the grip of sticky tyres. Right now I am still getting used to the car, and whilst I will try to get to some trackdays in the near future, I will mostly use the car on the roads. So, confused as ever,my questions are as follows: Should I bother to change my wheels (the tyres are new so will last a while)? Do I need to think about adjustable platforms / apollo before I think about smaller wheels and sticky tyres? If changing the wheels is a player, what should I be looking to buy? Thanks once again to all you knowledgeable people! Bloggsy. Green & Clammy Edited by - Bloggsy on 15 Feb 2007 16:22:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted February 15, 2007 Support Team Share Posted February 15, 2007 I've never driven a 7 on 16" wheels so can't comment on that but if you do decide to change to 13" rims then I would go for the Caterham 8 spokes. They are pretty light and don't cost much more than Minators (Minilight style). For appropriate tyres just search for and read a few of the many threads on that subject. For sticky(ish) tyres you can choose between Avon CR500 (my favourite road tyre), Yokohama A048R or A021R, or Toyo R888. It would probably be sensible to fit adjustable platforms if moving to 13" wheels as you could end up with your sump uncomfortably close to the ground. You don't say what engine you have but, if its a K-series and you want to do track days, then I would suggest that an Apollo tank is the minimum protection you should fit, especially if you get stickier tyres. Don't be in a huge rush for upgrades though - drive the car for a while until you decide what the real limiting factors are for you - and then go for it 😬 Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Yes it is a K series (1.6 SS). I get the feeling that the limiting factor for me, will be me So i should probably, wait, then, sort out adjustables, then, an apollo, then, start looking for wheels/tyres. Have I got that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Bloggsy Changing to 13" may not affect the ride height too much if at all. eg fitting 13" with 185/60 tyres will drop your ride height by 3/4", if you went for 185/70's then the height will be almost identical to your 16" setup, only point on the latter is I think they are only available with Yoko AO21R's not 48's, not sure about the Toyo's though. If you go for CR500's then I think you would need to look at adjustable platforms as these tyres are fairly skinny. One other point is that if you have cycle wings you might want to consider the effect there maybe if you reduce the rolling radius, you may end up with a gap of 2" or so between tyre and cycle wing with CR500's. If you decide to do trackdays I would seriously consider the Apollo, there was a recent thread where somebody was suffering oil aeration/ distribution on non sticky tyres round roundabouts! Mark Edited by - F355GTS on 15 Feb 2007 15:01:49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Oil probs around a roundabout, ouch! Guess that is a fair indication of where my priorities should lie then. The gap for the front wheels shouldn't be a problem since I have huge gaps anyway - clams/flares! I had looked at the tyres available, and to avoid changing the ride height too much it looked like 14" wheels had a larger selection of tyres that would keep me to within a couple of cm of my current height (which I guess I should measure). But if 13" is the way to go I guess I should look at the adjustables. All in all I think I will do as Shaun suggests and wear the big tyres out first, or at least take a mm or so off the tread! Green & Clammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Perhaps you should get an Apollo, come to one of the Dunsfold Handling days and do Donuts all day, that'll help you feel you have had your monies worth out of them 😬 Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 OK... so the first thing I will get is an apollo and adjustable platforms, the 2 first things I will get are an apollo, adjustable platforms and wheels, the 3 first things I will get are an apollo, adjustable platforms, wheels and tyres to replace the ones worn out doing donuts, the 4, no... amongst.... amongst the things I will get are an apollo, adjustable platforms, wheels, tyres and an LSD so i can do the donuts... ...I'll come in again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squadron Leader Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Hi, I've been reading these posts with interest. As a relative newcome the the 7 world - what is/are apollo's? ..very ta, Phil Edited by - Squadron Leader on 15 Feb 2007 18:13:58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 It is an anti-cavitation device, which takes the oil feed from your oil pump, which removes the air, prior to the oil entering the engine. It is a halfway house between a wet sump and a dry sump. Only dead fish go with the flow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 The Apollo is an oil de-airator tank. The K engine has a very shallow sump and the oil pick up gets exposed under cornering g forces with the result that the oil pump delivers an air/oil mixture to the engine which can lead to damaged bearings and other problems. It's a cheaper solution than a dry sump and works adequately but not as well as a full dry sump system. I have a similar 7 with clams to yours Bloggsy. I changed to 13" wheels running 185/60s which dropped the ride height by just about 1" which on my car was enough to have the sump clout the road if at all bumpy. I fitted adjustable platforms and no problems since. The other effect will note if fitting the smaller wheels is that the clams may look silly with a huge gap between the clam and the rubber. You can sort that by a little careful fettling of the clam support strut. The difference in handling is very marked. The smaller wheels are much better. I ended up changing the springs as well because although the handling was no great shakes with the 16" wheels it went a bit evil with the smaller wheels. Ended up with the 5/8 roll bar and 300lb springs at the front but kept the soft 🙆🏻 springs (100lb) at the back. That combination is probably not the best but it's pretty forgiving if you get things out of shape I find. Also I wouldn't muck about - get an Apollo. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Beaten to the punch by those that know what they are talking about, but since I went to the effort, here is the link anyway! Apollo - Short description & picture just over half way down the page. Amazing how a simple thought about wheels has got me thinking about so many "little extras" to go on my car! A day off work with a bug looks like it is going to cost me... damn wireless internet, I would never have bothered if I had to get out of bed to browse Edited by - Bloggsy on 15 Feb 2007 18:47:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Midas Posted February 15, 2007 Leadership Team Share Posted February 15, 2007 Just an alternative thought, but you might wish to get used to the cars handling before you think about upgrading tyres. I can only offer my own experiences, but I have actually gone the other way. Car was bought with 13" wheels with grippy rubber (Yoko A021) However the car was stuck to the raod like glue, so much so that when i did get into trouble it was too late - no way i was going to have the skills to recover. Changed to larger wheel (15") and reasonable tyres (toyo Proxies T1-Rs) and suddenly the car is more 'adjustable' letting me understand how it moves according to my driving skill. I now feel much more confident in the car - oh and the stickie tyres wear out in 3000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Fair point Midas. To be honest I would rather spend my limited free time driving the car for a while rather than taking it apart! But on a sick day tucked up in bed, the mind starts to wander... hopefully it will come back too. But the thoughts are there now... I will resist the upgradeitis as long as I can, but I can see it will be a loosing battle. 😬 Green &Clammy Edited by - Bloggsy on 15 Feb 2007 20:15:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted February 15, 2007 Area Representative Share Posted February 15, 2007 Bloggsy Caterham did an article on this subject. It was on their old website but I have a copy as a Word document. If you would like to read it blatmail me and I can send it to you. Stephen GJT Crossflow 524 star of the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 You aill find that smaller wheels and high profile tyres will transform the car. The handling will be better, but you will notice more is the far better ride quality and the lower tendancy to tram line. Totally recommended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 13" 8 spokes 6" & 8" shod with 185/60 and 205/60 x 13 R888's 😬 Too young to be old ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted February 16, 2007 Support Team Share Posted February 16, 2007 Don't bother with 8" rears unless you have over 200bhp to deploy - it'll understeer for England unless you make major setup changes Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lynch Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Bloggsy, I've got a second set of Minators 13" with Yoko A021-R 185/60 R13 you can borrow if you'd like to see and feel the difference. Still road legal. Take a look at your dampers. to see if they've got a lot or just a couple of fixed platform notches.for now. I'm still on fixed platforms, 13" wheels and the race exhaust is the thing that grinds out first. Sump to tarmac height is about 65mm 1.4K SS 😬 here 'You've got be in it to lose it !' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alba 7 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Bloggsy, If you go down this route and decide you need adjustable platforms, I have set of Bilstein MO dampers that I'm changing out. They have rather short race springs as my 1993 VX was used at one stage on the track. Dampers are in good condition as the car spent more time in bits than being driven 😬 Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Bloggsy, as in most cases the best upgrade is to the driver. I plan to do this in spring, and with luck my driving will be better and I'll get more out of it as a result. If it keeps me alive/out of the hedges then so much the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 David, I will take a closer look at my dampers tomorrow and see if I can figure out the notches - and measure the sump clearance. Following that I may take you up on your kind offer Alba7 - you lost me there mate, I only just found out that adjustable platforms exist; the specifics are still alien to me And I still can't figure out how the :jap smiley is meant to be used? 😶🌫️ Green and Clammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Whereabouts in Lincs? It's an easy swap if yo ufancy trying some wheels out at 13". I had 16" HPC wheels once. You do lose clearance and have to be careful in a way you don't have to now but it's always manageable. You get warmer tyres which = grip and the car feels lighter 'on its feet'. I'd recommend it. Tyres are quite key though don't buy something not already identified on this site as good for sevens. Bear in mind there's a good market for HPC wheels typically from non caterham 7s so yo udon't actually have to spend too much cash making the change Nigel Mills - My next car must have xenons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 I have taken a good look at my dampers and I can't see any way of adjusting them. I also did a quick measurement of my sump clearance - 75-80mm with the car empty. I am reluctant to loose 20mm of clearance by fitting 13" wheels 185/60 tyres, so it looks like adjustable platforms are the way to go. At least Mrs Bloggsy will know what to get me for my birthday! Back to the searching the old posts to find out about adjustables... Cheers all, Bloggsy. Green and Clammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmmarsh Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Bloggsy I am near Stamford and have legal 13" A021rs you could borrow if you want to try them out. I run 80mm clearance (with 16" ZZ3 tyres, out of the car and I am 120kg) and only have a problem on the 13s if I am 2-up when going over a rise - the sump has a few scrapes because of this, but no major incidents. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartmoor7 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Just fit 185/70x13. Yoko A021. No change in ride height. Your cheapest possible option for improvement. Having said that, I went from the 205/45x16 to 185/60x13, also on standard non-adjustable suspension, and have had no grounding problems. (And all my driving is done on Devon/Dartmoor roads) Jerry Parker L7 SVN 1400 Supersport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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