CHRIS CLARK Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Having only just fitted the switch etc for the oil temp sender (in the Apollo) I wondered what was a 'normal' (within Caterham gauge/sender unit variations) on road, not track, temp? Mine read 65/67* after about twenty five minutes of driving followed by a quick thrash on a fairly cool day due to wind (Sunday). Others experiences please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 You should have around 80-85 deg in the crankcase on a moderate temp day. Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 I reckon there's probably a 10 to 15 deg difference between the crankcase temp & Apollo tank temp. so yours seems about right Chris. On track mine goes up to 80 - 85 deg. Of course it does depend on the accuracy of the gauge & sender (here we go again, worry gauges Chris)! Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted March 13, 2002 Author Share Posted March 13, 2002 There is also a sender fitted in the sump (although dis connected at present). Maybe I'll go for a three way swith to give water + 2x oil readings. Over kill or what!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 Er Chris, You are only interested in the higest reading which will undoubtably be in the sump..... Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying kiwi Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 I fitted an Apollo tank last weekend, not temp related, but what should the pressure be? mine is around 4bar when running but as i go round corners this reduces to 2 weird i know, is this right? Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Kiwi - i think this sounds correct the apollo tank is not designed to cope with oil surge (as such, it may help as an afterthought), it is more there to get air bubbles out of the oil, whichis a bad thing. if you are concerned about oil surge then I think your only solution is a dry sump, which tends to be expensive rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simos Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Surely oil temp on the road is dependant on the temperature of the road, in this country unlikely to be above 20/25oC and probably more likely to be 5-10oC. The English language, isn't it wonderful ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Rob - surely getting air bubbles out of the oil is a *good* thing? Simos - couldn't agree more teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Andy - I think that is what I meant wink.gif it was quite early at least for me it was air in the oil is a bad thing and the apollo helps get rid of the bubbles rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Robmar The Apollo tank will also provide a small reservoir of additional oil (approx 2 litres) which will help reduce the effects of surge, but only for a limited time. However you're right: a dry sump system is the correct engineering route to elliminate it. Simos The temperature of the oil is directly proportional to the energy introduced into the engine system. Rev. the nuts off it (once the oil is warm of course)& the oil temperature will rise regardless of the outside temperature. I don't consider the engine "warmed up" & ready to play unless I see 50deg C oil temp. summer or winter. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Rubbish Mick the Apollo does nothing to help with oil surge. The engine still picks its oil up from the sump . If it can ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Up to about 80 mph my oil temp gauge reads same as the water temp ie about 80/82C. At higher speeds the oil temp gets higher than the water, maybe 110 C at prolonged flat out. It used to get hotter than that, but then I took the heater out and the engine seems to run much cooler. Explain that? C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted March 16, 2002 Share Posted March 16, 2002 Do you have a K series? If taking the heater out cured it then it was obviously affecting the cooling circuit (as it taps into it). Maybe you had an air lock or a duff heater matrix or something? Despite the fact that modern synthetic oils can take higher temperatures, I'd still say that 110degC on a prolonged basis is too high. If you're getting it to this level regularly I'd look at fitting an oil cooler or an oil/water heat exchanger (I have one of these and they work brilliantly). Somewhere else on here I was once told that Honda (or someone who should know) spend lots of money trying to get their engines to run at about 75-80degC oil temp...if it's good enough for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted March 16, 2002 Author Share Posted March 16, 2002 Good point Andy. Honda normally get things right! I have a 'Laminova' oil/water heat exchanger fitted in the top hose and it does seem to work well with a quicker warm up than I (& others) would expect. It then seems to do its cooling job well too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 I thought the apollo does have some capability to protect from surge. If not then why is it fitted on R500's in addition to a dry sump? Could be wrong though. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 I'm under the same impression as Graham. Rob, What's the point in having the Apollo alone (no dry sump) if it makes no difference to surge? If there is no point please let me know asap as I'm about to have one fitted!!! James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhill Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 IME, and in others' too, the Apollo tank is beneficial during surge conditions. After I fitted one to my previous, wet sumped, car, the drop in oil pressure I was seeing on track was very much reduced. What Rob says is true, the Apollo makes no difference as to whether or not the pickup is sucking oil or air, but without the Apollo that means guaranteed no oil pressure and therefore no oil to the bearings. However, with an Apollo fitted, I reckon what's happening is that air (instead of oil) is pumped into it faster than it can escape out of the small vent pipe at the top, and as long as there is oil in the tank, you will get some pressure and with it some flow to the bearings. No doubt this is nowhere near as good as when the pick-up is sucking oil, but better than nothing, and a significant aid in those surge moments. Just an educated guess as to why, but there's *definitely* benefit from having one during surge conditions. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted March 18, 2002 Author Share Posted March 18, 2002 Graham. I think the R500's have the 'Apollo' tank as a way of increasing the very limited Caterham dry sump capacity.It is fitted differently to the wet sump versions as it is plumbed into the 'tower' rather than returning the air/oil to the cam box cover. It may also have the added benefit of acting as an oil cooler due to its forward mounted position and exposed metal surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Here we go again! Rob W: The Apollo doesn't elliminate surge it just helps reduce the effects, albeit for a v short period of time. The main reason for fitting an Apollo into a wet sump system is to remove the air from the oil. The Apollo in a R500 is there to increase the oil capacity. An Apollo will also act as an oil cooler (though nowhere as efficient as a proper cooler). Andy & David: Removing the heater from my car stabilised the water temp. I reckon it's the main cause of retained air in the system as it's the highest part & difficult (impossible?) to bleed. It also weighs 7kg's dry! Wildly varying oil temps. as discussed probably show up the inaccuracies of Caterham worry gauges. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 I'll have to have another look and see how it is plumbed then on my R500 and I can't see how it can usefully add oil capacity. The prob with the marginal oil capacity of the R500 is if the dry sump tank runs out of oil. With an Apollo in place I do not see how it prevents that or is beneficial when it happens. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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