Tech Forum - Changes to Classes for 2007

[Peter Carmichael]

If I enter my first sprint this year,

I will enter class 5 and take home the wooden spoon.

 

What else did you expect in your first sprint?

 

Seriously. I've been playing with the big boys in class 5 and I can reasonably expect my 155bhp to net me a top 7 placing. If I'd bothered to get the thing setup and bothered to turn up, maybe I'd have netted a few scalps just like the old days.

 

 

[david nelson]

I am more than happy for the champoinship to us my DL1 data logger in order to check max speeds.

 

 

David

[Robster]

Can I run my 155bhp xflow on my A21 tyres in class 2?? There appears to be no tyre limit there?

[robmar]

is that Yoko 21's if so that is a list 1b tyre and with 155 bhp you should fall into class 3

 

but yes there seems to be an ommision on the first posting by Mark

 

it should read that only list 1a tyres are allowed

 

Rob

[neil.cavanagh]

Peter,

On my first sprint after run One I was 1 sec behind Andy Nichols and 1 sec ahead of Mike Sankey... both very experienced sprinters!! (run was 140+seconds long I think... longcross in wet).

 

Unfortunately the season went down hill from there!!! (rained at 1st event where my lardey ar8ed car came into it's own!)

[Jason Plato]

a fast time at a wet Longcross is more a relfection of your mental state than driving ability 😬

 

here is C7 TOP

South Wales AO

[robmar]

DJ - i think you must of had your sensible head on that day, judging by your times, as even I who came 3rd on class 3 got a better time

 

or maybe you just had the wetter runs

 

rob 😳

[mikes]

Neil,

As Dave says, you didn't have the benefit of knowing how bl**dy scary it was going to be!!

Of course if you had listened to the wisdom of your elders - you would have still been no better off!! 😬

Mike

 

[robmar]

oh yeah and before anyone asks, I actually inspected the rhododendrums on a dry day 😳

[Jason Plato]

Yes - I backed right off an tootled round in 5th gear ....... pussy I know ☹️

 

here is C7 TOP

South Wales AO

[neil.cavanagh]

shame I messed up the 2nd run totally! oh well..... always next year.. or rather the year after as we dont' get to go to Longcross at all this year. ☹️ ☹️ ☹️

[CageyH]

Peter,

 

I was not just talkingabout my first sprint, but my first season

I expect to learn a lot, and most of all have fun.

 

Only dead fish go with the flow....

[Bilbo]

Hi Mark

 

Well none of this impacts on me, I am near always last anyway 😬 Still I am looking forward to seeing more of you all next year

 

I do hope it encourages more to go on our events only time will tell. Maybe a delay in omitting crossplies would have made more happy but what would they have bought if they needed a set half way through or even near the season when leading in a class........ another set of ACB10 🤔

 

So will we be seeing EVEN more tyre spinning before the start on the Fastest Caterham in the World day this year 😬

 

I am not sure if this is correct but the rear camber is 1.5 for radials

and with 0.25 de-dion ears for crossplies so there maybe more to mod for some than just a new set of tyres 🤔

 

'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬

1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension.

[smithj41]

Well after doing my sums. I have decided not to buy new tyres for next season.

 

So instead of spinting,I intend to used my ACB's on track days. I just cannot justify buying complete new sets of rubber when I have some (ACB's) in the garage wanting to be used.

 

Sorry but I agree with some of the above, a years grace would have been fair.

 

All going well I may be back in 2008. Have fun guys.

 

☹️ ☹️ ☹️ ☹️ ☹️

 

 

[Tight fart]

What are the differences between class 5 and 6? I can only see turbos must go in 6,

is the only other difference tyres? (all ACBs & slicks in class 6?)

 

A7 RDP pics here

[Richard Price]

Tight fart,

Classes 1to 5 are for road legal cars.

Class 6 do not need to be road legal.

[Alex Wong1697456877]

I have only just read this

 

Firstly I am familiar with the difficulties in creating classes and pleasing everyone.

 

Also, I have no axe to grind as my car - 250BHP Vx, sequential box - goes in class 5 which is fine.

 

If I have 2 concerns, they are as follows.

 

Why put sequential boxes in class 5. If it's bike cars you want to move, why not just state bike engined cars? Sequential boxes offer the tiniest performance improvement. To this day, I have been 0.5s faster with my Quaife semi helical vs my Elite sequential at Curborough. The real benefit of the Sequential is in long sessions in races or trackdays.

 

My biggest gripe is that these classes penalise weight and in particular, 16v Vx cars. A 180BHP Vx has absolutely no chance against a 180BHP K. I took PP's 1.6 138BHP supersport around curborough 1.3 seconds slower than my 245 BHP Vx. I would guess a superlight R is probably 2-3 seconds faster than a standard HPC around a double lapper at curborough. The standard Vx HPC has no chance in class 4.

 

Forgive me Mark, I know it's an impossible task, but I think to cap classes by BHP is impossible to police and achieves the opposite to what you're after. It penalises alot of the standard cars, (X-flows, Vx's and Zetecs), and strongly favours the K cars which per unit BHP, are faster than the other car engined cars. Only the bike cars are faster per BHP and they're all booted into class 5.

 

Please don't take offense. I can imagine how much thought has gone into this and I certainly am not sure I'm right. I agree it's a good idea to run it and see how it goes.

 

 

Edited by - Alex Wong on 18 Dec 2006 10:10:42

[Alex Wong1697456877]

To be fair, a standard Vx had even less of a chance in the classes I used when I was Comp sec. So I must be talking 🙆🏻 😬

 

Edited by - Alex Wong on 18 Dec 2006 10:17:48

[david nelson]

Alex

 

The aim of the class structure is to make it more inclusive. sequential boxes do give an advantage but only small. If i could have a quick shift system like Simon Rogers i would save 0.15sec per up shift.

 

with the aim to get more people sprinting any move away from standard"ish" spec might put people off. this is why class 3 no longer run ACB 10's.

 

class 4 is a good as it will make people think all is equal, if sequential boxes are allowed some will see it as to specalised.

 

 

David

 

Edited by - David Nelson on 18 Dec 2006 17:27:06

[Davey Bee]

I think you'll find that Simon is just a quicker driver........

I've looked at the weight that he's introduced into the car with the compressor and such, and while the shift is faster I feel that weight penalty offsets that advantage. I'm sure that he will be along shortly to tell me that really he's a crap driver with a great gearbox *confused*

 

R600 VX here

[Alex Wong1697456877]

David,

 

I take your point. What I can't square is the need to get new blood and beginners, and also standard cars into the sprints, whilst not overly penalising those who want to tinker with their cars which is part of the point of owning a Seven for alot of people. Sequential boxes do not give you 0.15s per shift. They'd only give you this if the standard box stopped you dead for 0.15s per shift. The reality is that the gain is minimal. There are far bigger gains to be had from suspension mods, from serious weight reduction of the car etc etc.

 

Anyway, I sympathise with the difficulty in forming classes. When I finally decide to do more sprinting again, I'll be happy to be in class 5. I'll be sad to lose the ACB's because the car is so good on them, but glad of the money it will save me. A24 ACB's were really very expensive and so easy to ruin.

 

Alex

 

_________

/ __ __ /

___ _//__T/__/_ ___

/ (_) (_)/ /

/`-'/o/ _______ /o/`-'/

/ /// ( VDU7X ) // /

/___/--_________/--/___/

 

[david nelson]

Alex

 

I do see the pros and cons of the new structure. For me the new class 4 give a place for members that have tinkered there 7 but had not gone the whole hog.

 

I am user this will all be looked at again at the end of 2007 and if the system has failed some then ajustments will be made.

 

I can not beleave its only 4 months to the 1st event.

 

 

 

David

[Simon.Rogers1]

Here I am Davey 😬

 

Sticking to the gearbox subject.

 

At the time of ordering specifying etc. I thought it would be a tit for tat sort of thing. Elite box is significantly lighter than the 6 spd Caterham job so I can afford to add some back with the compressor. The actuator and paddles probably weigh less than 500g. Thats a big breackfast

 

In reallity if you wish to really lighten the car you could just install the light weight ali compressed air tank which you can spec to any size depending on no. of changes required.

 

However I think the biggest gain this year has not been the speed of change although that is quick. It has been the ability to change gear anywhere, at any point on the track. And this is because your hands are always on the wheel.

 

With a stick change I would change gear prior to turn in (generally). Now I don't 😬

[neil.cavanagh]

Alex,

If you are talking about weight think of us poor SV drivers..... cars 30kg or so heavier, and drivers the same if not more!! My car when last weighed with me in it was 696kg!!!

[Silver 21]

Neil

Think about us poor sods with BEC, my car weighs all of 430Kg but the driver weighs nearly as much again 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬

 

Graham

 

Lotus 7 Club General Secretary