Bloggsy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Does this sound like a good first 7? Hi all, I am new on here and looking for my first 7. I have read lots of emotive views on here about the relative merits of crossflows vs K series vs Zetecs. I like the idea of the character of a crossflow, but am put off by stories of rebuilds every 20k miles and slightly concerned about the fuel consumption (although pops, bangs and flames could be worth it!) The K series sounds like the sensible option, but with the potential to go a little bit OTT too :-) and of course I could get a slightly newer one, possibly with less corrosion issues. The Zetec is an enigma to me; it sounds like it will have some of the crossflow character, but with more power as standard and hopefully good reliability. But not having been a factory fit I am concerned about support/servicing issues, not to mention resale. Anyway, I have been looking around the adverts both on here and Pistonheads and am no closer to reaching a conclusion – I guess I just need to get my bum on some seats and drive! To that end, does this Zetec look like it would be worth a look or is there anything that shouts out avoid? here I have also expressed an interest in TonyC’s Kseries here but was late off the mark and must take my place in the queue! Anyone have an idea on total cost to get a windscreen and weather protection fitted to it? So many questions for a newbie! Thanks in advance for your help, and also the inevitable humour! p.s. Sorry for yet another "help me buy a car" post. - Edited to get the "here"s to work 😳 Edited by - Bloggsy on 20 Nov 2006 21:33:57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Zetec looks fine, but some people are put off by Q plates. Bear that in mind when it comes to sell it. Only dead fish go with the flow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Have a look here There is a 1400 K going cheap, and a rather odd looking 7 with funny shape wings ar a reasonable price too. Only dead fish go with the flow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Are the 1.4 k series cars ok? From a lot of the discussion on here, people seem to be converting them to bigger & "better". Or is it a case that those that are happy with them don't post about _still_ being happy with them? So many cars, so much confusion! I do so hope I can get it sorted out soon - my new house is ready in about 3 weeks and will have a double garage that just NEEDS to be filled! (Apart from all the junk that is!) Cheers, Bloggsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 1.4 cars are fine to start with. Would be better with a 6 speed box though. (I think it only has a 5 speed). Face it, whatever you get, 12 months (or less) down the road, you will want more. A 1.8 is probably a better option, but depending on the budget, you may find it hard to find the ideal 7. Only dead fish go with the flow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLR69 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Bloggsy YHM. I bought my first 7 in September so am a "newbie" to 7 life ! I spent considerable time looking at the variants and they all have their pros and cons. However, I thought that if I buy a 1.4 or 1.6 I will probably end up spending a considerable sum tuning it, so I opted for the 1.8 in Superlight R guise...albeit in due course that might need tweaking ! Great fun and I wish I had bought one years ago and hadn't waited until mid-life - 44 ! Stuart Kawasaki Green Superlight R No 69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted November 20, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted November 20, 2006 Bloggsy Welcome Nothing wrong with Crossflows. except the fuel consumption, possibly Mine has 81,000+ miles on the clock, it would have had a refresh before I bought it (after a race season) and since then had a rebuild after some 50,000. It's running beautifully (where did I put that wood). Decent torque, suits the Seven well, not particularly heavy, lovely sound! GJT Crossflow 524 star of the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Stuart, Very jealous, not sure i could afford an SLR. Also jealous you live on Guernsey - great place! Only managed to visit once for "work" and received a very warm welcome. Edited by - Bloggsy on 30 Nov 2006 17:04:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsmellydaddy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I brought my x-flow in July, and it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on. Is fuel consumption really an issue ? fill anything with Optimax and drive like your being chased and you wont be ecological. Pound for pound you can beat it. (Bloody cold last weekend though, and don't drive through horse sh*t with cycle wings unless you want straw in your hair !) it's not about the engine it's about the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Bloggsy, I'm in Lincolnshire and can advise over a beer if you are nearby. There is nowt wrong with a 1.4, my supersport is 130 bhp and it's fab. The 1.4 non supersport has "only" 100 bhp and will "only" do 0-60 in about 6.5. That 1993 one at Millwood looks a steal. Ks are easy to maintain once the known foibles (head gasket...) are fixed. Zetecs are a Cinderella, they are very cheap to buy and slow to sell. I don't know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Very non-pc to say it, but my first consideration was not the environment! I recycle (well,Mrs Bloggsy does), I cycle into work most of the time and I occasionally hug trees; although only when drunk and only then for support. The fuel consumption issue of the crossflow is perhaps less of a concern than the reliability one. I know people have done huge mileages on them, and am quite prepared to be persuaded over, but the feeling I get is that I might struggle to find a nice one. Again, I stand ready to be corrected! Not many people are coming up in favour of the Zetec, I guess that is confirming my unfounded doubts about them. Cheers for all the help so far, throw enough information at me and some of it will stick, a little like driving through horse sh1t I imagine! P.S. B.O.S.S. I am going along to the Lincs area meet tomorrow, if you are there I will take you up on that, and even buy you the beer! Edited by - Bloggsy on 20 Nov 2006 22:47:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 My only reservation with the Zetec powered car you are looking at is the Ital axle which do not cope well with this level of power. IMHO a De Dion is a better prospect. Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Cheers Mark, I had wondered about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 The zetec never really took off in the Caterham. I had one in a Birkin and they are a solid, reliable motor but they are heavy. As a first car I`d probably advise you to go for a K, they aren`t bad despite all the discussions on here about head gaskets etc. They are really nice with a 6 speed box though. Don`t worry about starting small.........upgrading is part of se7en ownership. a 1.4K supersport with 6 speed box should make for a quick, reliable car.........and you can always do the 1.8 conversion later on.............it`s not as costly as you might think, do a search in tech talk for more info. I`m too young for crossflows, I kind of see them as old fashioned..........yep that`s me driving around in a 50 year old design...........but you know what I mean. Also most of the ones I`ve come into contact with have been rather oily 😬. That said you can get big power out of them although presumably for big bucks. I would have thought £12-13K should get you a pretty nice K series, maybe even a 1.6. And of course at this time of year its a buyers market. Check out Pistonheads, normally quite a few on there. Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardUSA Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I have a zetec svt (FI) with a lightened flywheel in my car. I'm very happy with the motor -smooth,strong -with plenty of torque - and sounds good (burbble/pop/bang). 😬 The engine is oil tight and plenty of upgrades are available if you want. A Cat friend has an x-flow but haven't driven to compare the two. Zetec's are the engine pushed by Caterham USA. Though not an issue for you the last I heard the X's were not available here even if you wanted them. One vote for Zetec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Richard is quite right, the Zetec is the standard motor in USA. They don't have the K, whether this is for emissions or type approval reasons I don't know. I suspect it's more to do with US buyers being happier to buy a Ford engined product than "some Limey aloominum piece o'crap that they put in some kinda city microcar called a Metro." 😬 I think Zetecs offer fantastic performance for the money - I have seen them on here at giveaway prices compared to Ks offering similar outputs, but they are always very slow to sell. I think it's best to buy one of them as a keeper, probably not as a first car that you might want to sell on when you have learned a bit more about what you want. That Millwood 1.4 at 7.5k still looks a steal. If it isn't completely goosed you could buy that and run it for free for a couple of years. How much more depreciation is it going to suffer from that price? I'd say no more than £1000 if you kept it 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I'm a happy Zetec owner. Changed when the old xflow needed a rebuild, and decided it was the way forward. Although it is a heavier engine its still lighter than the Vauxhall lump (isn't everything ). It retains much of the character of the xflow - when run on carbs, but because it hasan ECU and 3d mapping its far more economical (about 20% improvement). The Ital axle can be a problem in the higher tuned Zetecs, but a "standard" unit should be within the capabilities of the axle. An upgrade to consider is to change it for a Ford unit at a later date. You do need to consider if you will keep the car long term, upgrading as want/need/finances permit, or will you trade in/up. If the latter, you need to keep a close eye on what is selling well, for the former, remember, most bits on a Seven can be changed (for a price & some work) so find one you like The advice I give people is to get down to a local meeting and talk to every owner you can, and get your bum on as many seats as possible. Dave H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 Dave H and Richard, thanks for your replies and votes for the Zetec, I think the potential weakness in the Ital axle might put me off. I am not sure if I should buy a "1st Seven" and sell it on after a couple of years, or if I should go the extra mile (& stack of cash) and look for a keeper. I suppose it all comes down to money in the end, but I don't want to end up with something that is too much of a compromise and that ruins the experience for me. I know for sure that I will quickly get annoyed with it if I am spending more time in the garage than on the road. Batteredoldsupersport, I like your thinking on the Millwood car, but if a dealer is selling it for that price, there HAS to be something wrong with it. Or am I just a suspicious old cur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Speak to Jon at Millwood. He will tell you about the car, warts and all! Only dead fish go with the flow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Bloggsy, The Ital axle would only be a problem if you try dumping too much power through it, or use it on the track with over large or too soft tyres. I've been running mine (with the Zetec) for 5 years, and the previous 11 with the xflow. Only broken it once, when I tracked the car with low oil in the diff...not recommended. It was explained to me as, if you gently increase the pull on a piece of line, it will take a lot more force to break it than if you "snatch" at it. So be a little careful with the thottle & clutch and it will be fine. And remember - the Ital Axled Seven is lighter than the De Dion version. Dave H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Dunno Bloggsy but I'd ring and find out. The thing is that it's an early 1.4, so it's an older car than most K series in the used park. 1.4s are not much loved (like Zetecs) and if it's unmodified after 30k then someone has just used it rather than upgrading. There are boatloads of "better" and newer 7s around for 10k at the moment. Millwood won't sell it if it's a dud, they have to offer a guarantee. It might be cheap just because of the time of year or because it's not got many goodies. Rememebr you can add goodies, they are around secondhand on here a fair bit, or you can get them as presents as the years go by - a sight better than bloody socks! I'd be ringing very soon and going over for a test drive at some point, what's to lose other than a tank of petrol to get to Dursley and back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggsy Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 About 7 1/2 grand! Already talking about a day trip to Bath with Mrs Bloggsy.... and while we are down that way Expecting it to be tired and unloved, but we all feel like that at times Cheers, Bloggsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted November 21, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted November 21, 2006 Bloggsy I agree with BOSS. Millwood will not sell you a dud. In general there are very few "duds" because the community is small and commited. The dealers/agents in particular know that word would get around if they sold the equivalent of a "Friday pm" car. Millwood have a very good reputation in the community. I have not used them but I know people who drive over from Herts/Bucks area specifically because they trust Millwood. GJT Crossflow 524 star of the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Bloggsy, I bought my first Seven in September. My budget was about £2k to £3k less than yours. I went for a factory built, 1700 Xflow, De Dion in the end primarily because of price but also because for a (mechanical) novice like me I thought it would be easier to diy maintain/upgrade than a K series. I'm sure others will disagree. . Bodywork and chassis condition was important to me too. BTW I test drove that 1.4 k series at Millwoods. It went ok but it had a fair amount of surface rust on the chassis tubes, a little damage to the side skin and I think I remember being told it had been raced. Neverthless for £7500 (£7000 when I looked at it, IIRC) I suppose it's not bad if your prepared to do work on it. Good hunting. I hope you're enjoying the ride....I am! 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 Edited by - KAP on 27 Nov 2006 09:08:53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 "7000 when I looked IIRC" Worth knowing. If it's been raced it's not a very early supersport, the one with 130 bhp and the proper race engine from the "saturday morning club" is it? (Ace cars, I should know, I drive one!) Rusty chassis tubes clean up OK, a bit of wire brushing and POR15 or black chassis paint will see it right for not much effort/money. The K series vs XF debate will run and run. 😬 If you are happier with clockwork points and carbs then go for the XF. If however you have never before had a car with carbs, let alone twin Webers, you will find carb setting up a complex and regular chore, in contrast with injection which may be harder to fix if it goes wrong but won't actually go wrong. Bloggsy, YHM. I am thinking about going to the area meet tonight, trying to persuade ANdrew Willoughby who is nearby to come too. When/where is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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