Tech Forum - Championship Points System

[Mark Durrant]

I think the scoring system we used for the classes, including the novices and ladies worked well with up to an extra 0.5 point for breaking a class record being a good differentiator. However, the points system for the overall championship did not work quite so well giving those who competed in a class with a small number of entries an unfair advantage. An example of where it did not work was in class 4 where I finished ahead of Ken Evans in the overall championship despite Ken winning the class! Having two different point scoring systems makes for additional administration and I would prefer to return to a single system for next year. I recommend that we use the same scoring system as used for the classes this year for the overall championship but what are your views? Remember whatever points scoring system we adopt it will not be perfect! As ever let’s keep the contributions constructive.

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[robmar]

gets my vote as it makes it a heck of a lot easier to do the results

[Shaun_E]

Having switched back to the class scoring system for the novice and ladies championship - which worked more fairly - I think that the overall championship should also be scored in the same way.

 

The other problem to overcome is the points scored at very low attendance rounds e.g. Pembrey. It worked in my favour at Wiscombe where I got 2nd place and therefore 20 points (plus the half for breaking the course record 😬) but this was not typical of my scores. I liked the system that BARC use where your score is relative to a bogey time. I appreciate this will be skewed by wet course vs dry course and don't know the details of how they set the bogey time but perhaps we could look into that.

 

Yellow SL #32

[neil.cavanagh]

hmmm.

Gong to have to be careful to not come over as sour grapes... but the low attendances in some classes did make some of the novice championship results look funny.

 

ie If only 2 entrants in a class it doesn't matter how slow/uncompetitive the 2nd runner is, they will get 20 points regardless. Where as someone being not too far off the pace in class 2 will be getting 17/18 points.

 

So, yes to using the class scoring scheme for overall championship to.

 

BUT change the scheme to be based either off the fastest time of the day, or a 'bogey' time. (though quite how to calcualte this I don't know? previous course record? )

[Don]

Neil - I thought that about the Ladies Champ too. I don't mean to be controversial and it hasn't affected the overall scoring , but the ladies in class 5 benefitted from the low attendance points at Pembrey 1, whereas Kate, who had had a quicker time than them overall, only scored 2.85.

 

Therefore I think the bogey time would be a good idea too.

 

Edited by - WindyCat on 9 Nov 2006 12:19:52

[Richard Price]

I think the class scoring system has worked well this year, but I do agree that there have been a few odd results due to poor class support.

 

Class 2 and 3 have been as close as ever, but class 5 in particular has suffered from poor support. The issue should be to encorage better support, rather any change to the scoring system.

 

Having reviewed the novice scores, I would say that the results reflect the merits of the performances of all concerned very well.

 

I think the overall championship scoring has had the desired effect, where good performances in close, well supported classes stand a better chance in the overall championship. Dave McFarlane would have been 6th rather than second overall using the class scores rather than 25 for a win etc. The two competitors in joint 4th place would also be demoted a few places.

Competitors in class 2 and 3 have had a better chance of overall honours this year, but the chance of a class 1,2 or 3 competitor taking the overall championship still looks slim.

However, capping the maximum class score to 21 points (without a record) looks to have helped to even out the class scores.

 

 

[neil.cavanagh]

RP...

Not wanting to get into a slagging match but I think the low attendance in classes will always be there. The scoring system IMHO needs to be modified to allow for this.

 

If I had been classified as running in class 4 this year I would have won the novice championship with my class 2 car/times.

[Simon.Rogers1]

Firstly - Lynda your point is absolutely correct. It was unfair. But it also worked the other way at Cadwell.

 

So although it introduces more maths I sugest the following.

 

For novice and ladies they are scored on a simple F1 scorring system. 10, 8, 6, 5,4,3,2,1 based on the %age time behind the class winner.

 

For example lets say I took 100sec to do (pembrey) and Fiona takes 110secs she would be + 10%. Mike (the old man Sankey) may take 108secs and Kate 111secs Kate would be JUST + 2.77% and so on.

 

So Kate gets 10 pts and Fiona 8 pts etc.

 

Its not that complicated and levels out any "numbers" and "car spec" issues.

 

I'm willing to write a simple spreadsheet to do it as there will only be a limited number of competitors.

 

Giving it some Welly.

[mikes]

Simon,

Less of the 'old man' if you don't mind - don't you know it is now illegal (if you were employing me 😳) to use such discriminatory language - quite appaling!! *tongue*

Still, what can you expect from a Taffy 😬 😬

Don't know why you think Kate will be nearer to my time than Fiona will be to yours - if she had her way I would be relegated to transporter driver anyway!!

'Old Git' Mike

 

[Simon.Rogers1]

Now who would actually employ you Mike. 😬

 

But what do you think of my idea?

[Simon.Rogers1]

Am I the only one with an Idea about the Novice/Ladies scoring system?

 

If so motion passed 😬

[neil.cavanagh]

Simon,

you idea sounds reasonable... though maybe have the scores go to 1 decimal place as on a longer event you could have times almost 2 seconds apart getting the same score (as one is 105.01% and another is 105.99%).

[Mrs Kipper]

I am not joining in these discussions as I will not be competing in 2007 ☹️

When my contract came up for renewal at the end of the season, the team manager signed a younger driver 😳 😬

 

Mrs K

[mikes]

Oh Mrs K, does that mean Kipper junior is back in the fray?

I preferred it when he stuck to Class 1 though *smile*

As for the scoring for the Ladies and Novice - surprisingly Simon, that isn't a bad idea. It is always going to be difficult to try and get competitive points scoring when there are relatively few competitors and a wide range of classes entered.

Working this way will produce a 'ranking' of relative performance at each event, but translating the percentage into points should keep it reasonably close.

I am trying very hard to think of some drawbacks (can't believe I agree with Simon 😬 😬) - but apart from the need to publish the percentages and points for clarity - I can't at the moment.

Mike

[robmar]

Mrs K - surely you can get a shared drive in another car

 

more than happy to use mine

[Mrs Kipper]

MikeS:

Yes: Kipper Jnr returns 😬

 

Rob: That's really very kind of you.

I really can't share someone else's car when I have a car of my own. I am in full support of the team manager's decision and was consulted throughout the whole process. 😬

 

Mrs K

 

[Jason Plato]

Yes: Kipper Jnr returns

 

in class 3 🤔

 

if so then that wil be fun

 

 

[Mrs Kipper]

Class 2

 

Mrs K

[apjenkins]

This may seem biased, but honestly it is not. TROPHYS I would like the forum to consider that where in the control of the Club we award First, Second & Third place trophys (in addition to the other awards) My reasoning for this is that in undersubscribed classes (1 & 6) often there is only first or first & second trophys awarded. There are many events where members compete week after week knowing that they are not going to get first/second place and go home empty handed.

It is not thier fault the class is under subscribed and I think for the cost of a trophy (a couple of £'s) the Club should encourage these die hards / newbies. (also it would make the Trophy buyers job simpler knowing he/she has to get three trophys for each class regardless, and not have to wait for the final entry list/numbers. Any unawarded items would surely not be a financial disaster)

Posted for constructive discussion @ndrew.

[Gambo]

An Idea I have had for a while would be to adopt a Decathalon type scoring system. You get points for time. I know it's similar to what has been proposed or infact what is being used, but I propose that it is solely based on time, nothing to do with class finishing position.

Take class record, could be say 20 points. for every tenth under class record you lose apoint, for every tenth over you gain a point.

It would not matter how many people were in a class, if you were not on money so to speak you would not score highly enough.

Sorry if this ahs already been mentioned I cannot keep up with all the threads about the scores.

 

RED 2.0 HPC 230BHP

[robmar]

hopefully a constrcutive reply

 

There are many events where members compete week after week knowing that they are not going to get first/second place and go home empty handed.

---

 

every events where I compete week after week I know that I am not going to be 1st/2nd or third and go home empty handed

 

my class is so large (not my fault) that usually itis 4th to 7th (ok I got 2 thirds this year but only becuase those that always beat me didn't turn up)

 

so can i have a trophy for turnign up and getting 6th? to encourge me to continue

 

rob

[Gambo]

APjenkins. Agree totally. I organised the llandow sprint this year and bought trophies for all six classes, 1st.2nd.3rd. I gave them all out as well. I myself have lost a 2nd place trophy where I broke an existing class record, only to be pipped on the final run. there was only 3 in the class on the day. ( 7had entered) , so only first was awarded.The organsing club had the second place trophy , but said they couuld not award it, them's the rules I was told It is gutting.

 

RED 2.0 HPC 230BHP

[Richard Price]

Whilst I understand the views of those that run in poorly supported class's, I also feel that to give an award for being third for, potentially, being several seconds off the class winning pace, devalues an award for third place in a well supported class.

If you want awards down to 3rd, with only 5 runners, then there should also be awards down to 6th place with 10 runners.

But that starts be devalue any award.

[Don]

If there are only 3 in the class, then you've actually come last, if you've come 3rd....

 

crikey even I'm in with a chance of trophies if there's a prize for coming last

[Gambo]

Richard, what if you come first , a long way of the normal class winning pace. Or you come 3rd within a couple of 10ths of first. 🤔

This is an argument which can easily go both ways

But it is nice to get a pot now and then.

 

RED 2.0 HPC 230BHP