Simon.Rogers1 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 But R300 don't have MEMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The reason I have not sprinted in the past is that I have made minor modifications to the car. I had throttle bodies, airbox, Emerald and verniers fitted to make it more drivable, and enjoy it more on the road. To go sprinting with that package, which is about 150 Bhp on a 1600, would put me in class 5. The comment about power etc. is all very well, but in the first season, trying to compete with Dave J with 246 BHP is a daunting prospect. I agree that corner entry and exit speed is important, but surely 100 BHP makes quite a bit of difference to acceleration. Some cars on the plenum run about 150 BHP (claimed). It is hard to please everybody. People have different budgets. Some do it to win, and some do it for fun. To me, my first sprint seems like a daunting prospect. So much to learn. Little chance to drive the circuit before hand, and get used to the limits of the car. I am sure that the club spirit will pull me through, but once I have worked out my finances, and manage to stay in the countyr long enough, I am tempted to give it a go. It is just the daunting first event that needs to be put to one side. As someone else has mentioned, an introduction to sprinting day would be good. Prespective sprinters could get a taste for the event. It could be run like a normal sprint, but without the requirement for proper MSA timing. Then people can get a taste for sprinting without the initial outlay required for the L7C championship. Similar regulations could be in place as for the club days, with perhaps some of the more experienced campaigners to guide newbies through. If I start sprinting, can I stick one of those big white squares on my car? Only dead fish go with the flow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Cagey - one point to consider is that I was only 1 second slower round Curbuggar with 100 bhp less in my 1600 super sport engine after my 1900 blew up . Power is only one factor in getting a good time. Far too much emphsis is placed on power especially if its your first year and you dont even know which way the next corner goes 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Cagey - come and do your first event with me Ash and Red dave we will have a giggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Simon, Smart 🙆🏻 😬 😬 😬 though I was referring to my car which I believe does have a MEMS.... though I'm might be wrong. It did happen once before. 1994 I think! 😬 😬 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Dave, I have seen you drive on the road, and know you are a nutter! 😳 I accept the point that in experienced hands, you can make up that deficit. I also agree that too much power for a novice is not a good thing, as you may not be able to use it. With the 1600 you were running in class 3? With mine, i would be in class 5. I think with the rules, you will need to rely on honesty and sportmanship to level the playing field. As to the first event, I am tempted, but need to determine which country I will be living in first. I will also need to make up a timing board to fit to the car, or so I belive. What other mods do I need? Yellow tape on earth lead. Any stickers? Someone mentioned some earlier... Only dead fish go with the flow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Cagey - I know people with single seaters who sometimes hire Curborough privately (the more people, the cheaper it is), especially if they have had mods done to their engines. They wouldn't otherwise get the chance to test the car outside of an event (at least you have that advantage!!) No times taken, no pressure, just lots of practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Decal sheet here and Race Numbers here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 CageyH It aint that big a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 So why don't more people do it then? I have to balance the initial outlay against the probability of still living in the UK Only dead fish go with the flow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Kev, If you don't mind the Jacque Villenuve look, I have a spare race suit you could use . Liecence is £35.00. Really other than a catch tank on the breather, you do not have to spend anything on your car. Only one scrutineer has evr pulled me up for not haveing those decals on my car. As Dave J said come along it's good fun. RED 2.0 HPC 230BHP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Gambo, Thanks for the offer. I seem to recall you being a bit (quite a bit) taller than me! Jaques Villenuve look? Maybe when he was aged 4, trying on hois dad's overalls 😳 Only dead fish go with the flow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Hi Mark Well me never a contender and this years been a total wash out for many reasons Well as to the 200 BHP limits so which RR session should I chose one will give me say 185 BHP another say 210 BHP allowing each way for a mere 5% error each way. Far too many cars are about that BHP. All rather depends on the RR guys estimate of my transmission losses let alone if he is my best mate. So if you get someone that goes in class 4 claiming 198 BHP with a RR session to back it up and wins in class 4 by a slim margin how will that stand up if a club member says that RR under reads and its more likely to be 208 BHP. Mostly RR should only be about goes in running rough comes out like ****e of the shovel there is too many variables think Emerald do it the best so are we all on the limits going to go to one to prove all is equal The number of threads on the accuracy of RR sessions is perhaps worth looking at before you go down that road. I think you just going to give yourself an unwarranted load of trouble. Me I will stay in class 5 its 230 BHP really if anyone wishes to dispute that they can pay for the RR session and my free tune up. Free tune up.... well you would have to prove it was the max and I had not messed about with the settings..... do you really ant that amount of agro All this rather ignores the fact that your on a drying or getting wet track and its sprinting not racing on a sealed engine. Banning the only good for a few miles tyres makes a little more sense 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Ban trailers that will stop all the low milage tyres *wink* *wink* *wink* *wink* *wink* *wink* *wink* *wink* *wink* Maybe 😬 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal mickey Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 So where exactly have we got to 🤔 Is class 5 really that poorly supported 🤔 If it is surely the answer is to encourage more entrants rather than change the rules, after all many people have rebuilt their cars to comply with the existing rules. Some would say that is the problem - more cars modified within the rules thereby reducing the competitiveness of existing cars and ultimately the increase in bec's. But then again what spec is a class 5 car exactly and how many remain standard-not many I would suggest. I would say to change rules now smacks of poor sportsmanship. My vote, for what its worth is leave things as they are and allow people to use acb10's in class 5 if they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenEvans Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I'm with Mike - leave things as they are and work on getting more entrants, and I mean all of us not just Mark. I think also we should aim to attract more experienced drivers from other championships to raise the bar on the top five competition rather than focus just upon attracting newcomers. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 if we do that what are we going to argue about on sunday 🤔 Edited by - robmar on 17 Nov 2006 16:59:37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Ken I like the idea in some ways but do not know the structure of other champoinships. Is it engine size and tyres that other use to define classes. how does are current class structure fit in with the rest? Are we just talking about class 4 and 5? what makes people do there champoinships? are we talking about current caterham owners or converting compedetors from other classes? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted November 17, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted November 17, 2006 David, From this years Harewood regulations (I've only included the Pertinent points):- Class 4 Road Modified Kit, Replica, up to 1700cc non ferrous.chassis construction cars and Spaceframed Cars, excluding non car derived engines. Class 5 Road Modified Kit, Replica, over 1700cc non ferrous chassis construction cars and Spaceframed Cars, excluding non car derived engines Full sized glass windscreens (a single windscreen the full width of the car and with a minimum glass measurement of 235mm [91/4"] between the top and bottom frames of the windscreen) must be used in the standard fitted position. Cars supplied without full sized windscreens are not permitted in these classes Wheels are free but the only permitted tyres within these classes are those defined in the 2005 or 2006 MSA Technical Regulations, List 1 A. Only car derived engines are allowed in classes 4 and 5. So, to run road going Caterhams at Harwood, It's either under 1700cc or over 1700cc, and then, Full windscreen, List 1A tyres, and no bike engines. There we go 1800's into a higher class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenEvans Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Thanks for that Richard I was struggling to find something to paste! Those regs are more specifically for National B event. On National A events the roadgoing class is split up to 1400cc and then 1400cc to 2000cc. Tyres must be list 1A. Several championships don't, sensibly, specify the full screen, like the Midland Hillclimb Championship that I do. I can hop between class 4 Lotus Seven Club and my 1400cc to 2000cc Midland class and change nothing. It's also worth noting that in other championships it's either roadgoing (list 1A) or non-roadgoing (slicks) - nobody uses List 1B tyres, though I have heard one or two championships are begining to allow list 1B in the roadgoing class. I don't know which ones. So if class 4/5 goes all list 1B it's out of synch with mostly everything else and reduces the likelihood of attracting top drivers from other championships. For me, the thought of having to compete on list 1B tyres one weekend and list 1A the next is not attractive! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Well not all regs exclude list 1B This from the Chieftain Sprint 2006 and seems more the norm from the regs I have received Category A - Road Going Production Sports and Saloon Cars (Excluding cars in Appendix 1) Class 1 - Up to 1400cc Class 2 - Over 1400cc to 2000cc Class 3 - Over 2000cc Category B - Road Going Kit type and Replica Cars Class 4 - Up to 1700cc Class 5 - Over 1700cc Category C - Modified Production Sports and Saloon Cars (Excluding cars in Appendix 1) Class 6 - Up to 1400cc Class 7 - Over 1400cc to 2000cc Class 8 - Over 2000cc Category D - Clubmans, Sports Racing Cars and Special Saloons Class 9 - Special Saloons, Kit type and Replica cars of any capacity not complying with any other class. 8.2 Appendix 1 - Excluded cars for Categories A & C Lotus 7, Caterham, Sylva and Westfield Kit type derivatives, Lotus Elise, Exige and 340R, Vauxhall VX220 Note: Cars using forced induction will be classified as having an engine capacity increase of 40%, those using diesel fuel a reduction of 50% (e.g. a 2000cc turbo diesel will be considered to be the equivalent to a 1400cc normally aspirated petrol engine) and Tyres: Cars in Category A may only use tyres in List 1A of the MSA Year Book Regulation R.3.1.1 for 2006 [and last year 2005]. Cars in Category B may use tyres in List 1A or List 1B of the MSA Year Book Regulation R.3.1.1 & R.3.1.2 for 2005 and 2004 Still note there is no BHP limit that seems the norm on all sprints 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Edited by - Bilbo on 17 Nov 2006 20:13:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Bilbo - your right when I have done longcross as not part of l7 I have been up against 220- 240 bhp caterhams on acb's (k's and also puma engined) ISTR the all circuit championship has no need for windscreens and there are allowed 1b (acb's included) but again split at the 1700cc level ICBWIOA Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 From the dark side..................... here Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Ultimately all I want is a fair-crack at the Novices championship. That's all I want for my first year of competition. I don't want one class to be any easier than the others to score Novice champ points and I don't want there to be a truly-unfair advantage within a class (e.g. ACB10s from what everyone is saying). Dunno - how about restricted (but not nesc. control) tyres for the novices. If you fancy yourself (and can afford it), feel free to strap on the rubber and compete directly against the establishment... 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Equipe™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Bilbo, That championship series has excluded ACB10's for next season, but not other 1B's, just the crossply's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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