Harry Flatters Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Only just dipped into this one , but I have read enough to say: Pete, hope you enjoyed the time your car was on the road *tongue* 😬 😬 *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell - Surrey AO and Su77on Se7ener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 A well built 1800 at the 200-220BHP level is OK with stock Goetze liners (if you can get them), for power outputs above this or 1900 I would be considering an EVO2 Scholar block or maybe Perfect bore liners with coated rings. AE liners are freely available and are now offerred by Rover PTP and a host of others as 'OE' replacement parts. I have attracted some scathing criticism in the past for using these although my own investigations have shown them to be at least as dimensionally sound as Goetze liners. IMO the stock rods (single tang cut) are capable of withstanding quite high outputs, even at 240BHP they seem up to the job, I have only seen one breakage and that was incorrect machining on the small end. However single tang rods are now getting in short supply and will necessarily be quite old and maybe part way through their fatigue life. IMO HMI is only really necessary for an engine habitually going over 8000RPM. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Brent it was a tongue in cheek comment. 😬 You do not think for one minute that someone should design let alone build a V8 version of this engine without serious consideration to the flexing of the bottom end? When this engine was concieved, did they perhaps look at the ladder design of the Brian Hart units? Was it so that the engine could be built on a production line and the ladder simplified the process? R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Certainly did Steve. 😬 But even the R500 is not a perfect car, and i have a whole list of modifications to make it better. And the engine is one of them. I did not want to go down the route of giving the engine to Minister and handing over 5 grand and that was it. There is always ways to improve things if you ask the right questions and do a lot of background research. You have to respect that the other lessen known engine builders are sometimes far better that the commercial ones that everyone knows. R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Has anyone any experience of using the" Perfect Bore liners"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 PTP use them in their 1.9 and 2.0 engines, they are a quality item but require carefull fitting and a coating on the rings. Since they are steel they take some time to bed in. I have approached PTP and Perfect Bore for information and have been bounced back and forth between them. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted November 1, 2006 Leadership Team Share Posted November 1, 2006 Thanks Oily, lots of useful info I have Steve Butts old vhpd unit sat in bits, but I'm not happy about the liner heights - decision time! Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Liner heights are easily corrected.. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted November 1, 2006 Leadership Team Share Posted November 1, 2006 Oh no, here we go.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Oh yes, by skimming the block? So we are saying that nobody has the Perfect bore liners fitted then? Obviously only perfect bore will fit them as they have a heated torque plate and are willing to warrant this work. It does sound a bit pricey but they may have concquered the problem of bore being oval when bored? Also they are aware of heat conditions when installing liners in the block, another plus as some builders do not. Obviously their liners are steel and require rings that suit their plateau honing so again more commitment to cylinder reliability and quality perhaps>? 😬 R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Peter, Scholar also heat the block and liners whilst under compression with a torque plate fitted when boring and honing. I have been very pleased with my EVO2 scholar block and if your on a budget it could be worthy of consideration. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Another for 1.8 EVO Scholar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Scholar blocks have attracted a lot of criticism from particular quarters. My own experiences with them have been very good and I have built 20 or so engines using EVO2 blocks at 1800 and 1900 capacity without any problems whatsoever. I routinely measure the bores for OOR, taper and size with a torque plate and so far I have had no reason to complain. Very early 1900s had a problem with the oil control rings, but this was long ago fixed with adoption of a U-flex type ring which does an excellent job of controlling oil consumption. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted November 2, 2006 Leadership Team Share Posted November 2, 2006 early 1900s had a problem with the oil control rings Would it therefore be correct to say that this is a result of piston/ring choice and absolutely nothing to do with Scholar's workmanship? Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Yes.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Oily and others... and thoughts on how the R500 EVO set up compares to a scholar 1900 set up? Does the extra capacity of the EVO mean it is 'over bored' or does it work well as a unit??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 One area that has not been covered in this debate is " Air Filtration" It has been my experience that poor air filtration has caused more damage to my K engines over the past 8 years than any other factor. Until this season I have used a variety of foam filters, some drawing air from within the bonnet area some drawing through the bonnet. At all times the filters were regularly cleaned and preened with the recomended dust retention oils. Routeenly I would examine the inlet tracks and be alarmed to find a thin coating of abrasive dust had passed through the filter. When stripping the engines down at the end of each season, the bores would be scratched, valve guides would show wear, valves seats would be worn. Last year I fitted an airbox and a massive K&N cone filter, periodic checks on the inlet tract have shown them to be clean with no accumalation of abrasive dust particles. The engine has remained strong without the usual fall off in performance and oil usage is worryingly low. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 Yes i have seen this also, but only down to filters that were not oiled according to manufacturers instructions, or units that were dry because og extended service intervals. The foam elements are not entirely to blame for induction debris, and blame can be proportionate to the ill fitting backplates also. Whether the air is drawn from the outside or bonnet area has no detremental effects on dirt entry into the inlet tracts. What constitutes good air filtration is the size of elements, in a typical filter can get to maybe 50 microns filtration, compare this to formula 1 standards and this is where we compromise due to the extortionate cost of filters and room for fitment. This is a very valid point Rob. We shall not be forgetting overfuelling which causes bore wash also as a contributing factor to excessive bore wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 The 2 litre is stroked to give the extra capacity, in my view it is a bridge too far, the current rod angle of the 1800 is already high, an increased stroke and shorter rod will make it worse still. oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Peter - Why don't you get a decent Vauxhall 2.0 XE engine instead? Edited by - AVES on 2 Nov 2006 15:55:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share Posted November 5, 2006 Thanks Dave for the chat we had. Very interesting to see what makes the ' k ' tick. I will mail you direct for the modifications that we spoke about. Thanks again for your time. *thumbup* R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Re-pipped in case other people missed this, goes well with the other R500 topic. R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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