Al Crickmore Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Okay. So enough time has passed since getting the car to now start thinking of getting some upgrades done to the engine. I've decided (with help from Roger King) that the first thing to do is to get the ignition system changed. What next? Humour me. Go from the cheap to the obscene. I need education chaps....smile.gif K7 ACTid=green> teeth.gif Edited by - al crickmore on 1 Mar 2002 09:59:42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Well Al, it basically boils down to your budget, you could decide to implicate a small engine modification costing several hudreds of pounds, or you could swing the opposite direction and be totally obscene on a Steel engine! However which path you choose is not going to stop there, you will allways be prepared to spend that extra few pounds on a new upgrade in search of beloved horsepower. C7 PWT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Crickmore Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 Okay. I'll put the budget somewhere between a grand and maybe two (and I only do that because I know it'll cost more!). I want power but also reliablilty is pretty high on my list. Tempt my tastebuds... K7 ACTid=green> teeth.gif Edited by - al crickmore on 1 Mar 2002 10:36:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I went down the same route as you, my first problem was trying to to set myself a budget, as allways be prepared to allmost double it. My supersprint showed all the classic signs of chronic piston/ring wear that apparantly all 1700cc x-flows (with standard cast pistons) suffer. I spoke to Roger in the same thoughts as you, how much for bhp? if you have limited knowledge on engine/ mechanicals then going down this route is sensible, if however you feel capable and confident of modyfiying it yourself you can save a considerate amount of money. C7 PWT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Turner Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Without knowing what non standard bits are in your engine I would do the following. Kent 244 cam Forged pistons (rebore to 1800 if AX block, stick to 1700 if 711m) Duplex timing gear (if not fitted) Steel rocker posts (if not fitted) VP bearings Some head porting, hard valve seats, valves to suit etc. Should give 150 hp approx and still drive beautifully on the road. Then Dry sump the engine to ensure reliable oil supply and improved ground clearance Custom exhaust with matched primaries and big silencer, improves top end power and keeps it quiet for track days etc. Improved gearbox with closer 1st gear Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Crickmore Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 Paul, As far as I am aware it's a pretty standard 1700 on the AX block. How much would that lot set me back? Assuming it's done professionally because I don't even own a spanner. Peter,What did you have done in the end and how much did you spend? K7 ACTid=green> teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Crickmore Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 Come on chaps. I thought you'd be reaching for your 'two cents worth' hats by now. K7 ACTid=green> teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I carried out all the above mods on my xflow in November. Cost of bits and engineering around £1400. Cost if done by an engine builder, anywhere between £2500 to £4000 depending on who you use and what state the engine is in before you start. The xflow is quite simple to work on, and there are plenty of machine shops around that can bore, balance etc. My £1400 included the rolling road session at the end. If your short of cash, do the project yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 86.5mm forged Wisco pistons (do not know costs yet as being made in US) AX Block Steel crank caps. Standard steel crank,12 bolt(now only 10+ 2 Steel dowels) steel rods,ARP bolts all round. Duplex chain,steel posts, 254 kent cam, dry sump,3D engine management. The project is still not complete and my costs to date far exceed what i paid for mr supersprint off Caterhams back in june 2001.(Circa 12k) As i said, once the bug has got you your budget gets blown out of the water! C7 PWT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Piper Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Stick a "k" Series in it teeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Crickmore Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 Erm, constructive replies please Mr Piper. Honestly. You lot are scaring the c**p out of me. 12 grand!?! K7 ACTid=green> teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Yes as i said it is not finished yet! C7 PWT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Crickmore Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 I'm off to see Roger King at lunchtime (if he's there) and get even more scared. Still. At least there will be a few sevens there to calm me down..... K7 ACTid=green> teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 As i said take most quotes with a pinch of salt, be realistic about what is important to you and how far you want to go, good luck talking to Roger i am sure he will explain your options to you. C7 PWT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 If you want to play with a Kent engine Roger is the best man for it... has done a lot for me over the years. However, I now have a kent based twincam. Fantastic! Images from the link below. Small Boy - with Loud Toy! See Eugene here and Lotus@Herts hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Paul Turners suggestion is exactly what I would do with your budget. Its a moot point whether the 244 is needed as a re-time of the standard 234 can liberate about as much power as the 244. Would also go to an electric fuel pump as the mechanical one might be marginal at this point (Roger would know) Anything Paul lists after his 'then' comment would be extras that you could save for another day when you have more dosh. Built an engine to a similar spec two engines ago and it was fine. If you want the obscene, an all steel jobby linke mine could be £6k + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I would suggest as following as best value for money. Don't go larger than 1760 (85mm) even on an AX block - Fit 11.2:1 compression forged Accralite pistons with bowl in crown to suit flat head. Fit Kent 254/264 cam with DFR valve springs and tubular pushrods from Arias. 48 DCOESP carbs with 42mm chokes Keep std rockers but with steel rocker gear (Roller rockers aren't necessary and the pins can break with these high valve acceleration/lift cams) Make sure manifold is 4>2>1 design preferably with 1 5/8 inch primaries 12 inches long running into 2 inch secondaries 24 inches long. Use lumenition optronic ignition fitted to Bosch dizzy. Use large turbo Escort Cosworth spark plugs with extended nose. Standard rods are very good with Cosworth rod bolts. Std crank is more likely to break so go steel - preferably forging. Steel end caps not necessary. This should give you a genuine 180-190 bhp with plenty of torque (As long as the head's very good). Having invested a small fortune on my x/flow powered Fiesta over 5 years and achieved 182 bhp at the wheels you can take my word for it. I'd like to see someone build a 2lt based around an alloy BDG block and alloy Burton head - Engine would probably weigh around 75kgs. Edited by - edmandsd on 1 Mar 2002 14:26:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Crickmore Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 Did you do all of that yourself? K7 ACTid=green> teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Courtesy of HT Racing - you may have heard of Roland Hayes (being the 'H' of HT) re Pinto fame. Both he and Aaron Tucker are always looking to develop the Ford range of engines not only for extra power but also increased reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Crickmore Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 You have any contact details? K7 ACTid=green> teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Contact Aaron on 01474 872888 - He tends to work 24/7 so you shouldn't have a problem getting hold of him. Mention my name and i'm sure he'll be receptive. He was only discussing the all alloy 2lt crossflow in a Caterham idea the other day if you want to go really mad ! I also know where you can get hold of a one off gear drive and fully integrated rocker assembly (1 of only 2 ever made) if you fancy something rather different. Cheers David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 David, Is it correct that you can in theory go above 2 Litres with the ally block, if you are prepared to spend money ? Weren't there some larger capacity BD's made ? Edited by - Graham Perry on 1 Mar 2002 19:54:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Al 155bhp Roger King engine = teeth.gif teeth.gif teeth.gif teeth.gif Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Crickmore Posted March 2, 2002 Author Share Posted March 2, 2002 Dave. 140 BHP Roger King. smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif teeth.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif Believe me he had me drooling by the end of it. Getting the work done over the summer some time. Oh baby. Edited by - al crickmore on 2 Mar 2002 20:05:57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Al Congratulations thumbsup.gif biggrin.gif You won't regret it !! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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