jackb_ms Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Hi Just received Lowflying and Caterham Cars are advertising a new VVC-R conversion, with roll barrels and retaining the original MEMs which is reprogrammed. The other option for a VVC-R would be the standards DTH TBs and an Emerald. In your opinion what would be the best option Please discuss Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'd go Jenvey/emerald as they are well known and all the respected tuners can work on them. CC conversions are never IMO that good a deal in terms of value - they are convenient and you can trade it in at CC afterwards if you wish, but that's all. Were I in the market my money would be going to Hellier/DVA or similar for DTHs and Emerald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 £25545.00 seems a lot of money to get 180 BHP from this engine. What is the standard power output.? I take it these are not the Titan Roller barrels then? Swan neck versions? R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 They will be the Titan ala R500. I know the chap who developed the conversion - so do you Jack - Its Mr Fender Probably copied from his spec. - even so £2000 is a lot of money just for the ECU re-map and a set of RBTBS. What is included in the conversion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 The fitting is included Ok I will ask Mr Fender if he can help me! Cheers Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsta Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Jack, this seems like a lot of money to get 180bhp. It may include fitting but does it include a go on the rolling road? I would certainly speak to your guy and/or Dave Andrews. I'm sure they can recommend the best way to get a RELIABLE 180bhp out of your engine for 2k! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 2-2.5K... you'd be looking in excess of 200bhp for that SV 2.3 Duratec and for the last time, no it is not a truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 The RBTB's were £1000 last time I asked for a price, so that is where a big chunk of money is going. I know the 1st full VVC (EU3 I understand) on RB's and MEMS is putting out a goodly chunk more power than the 180 quoted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john aston Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 The conversion cost twice what my engine cost in first place.So why am I tempted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 trouble is that it still wont rev very high with the VVC gubbins in place and the std EU3 pistons are a concern of mine at 180bhp and it sounds like the ecu will still be vacum control on idle - I think this will mean the engine is slow to rev and come back to idle . personally I would go emerald and DTHTB's , then maybe fit solid lifters and some different cams and let the engine rev a bit more - this is where the extra power will be found . But you still have a big problem with the EU3 pistons not being very safe above 7300 rpm or 175 / 180 bhp ☹️ £2K is a lot of cash but the rollers are about £1K retail, and it is convienient for many folk who want a drive in drive out factory approved ( good at resale ) upgrade. pistons are a concern tho ....... here is C7 TOP South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted September 7, 2006 Support Team Share Posted September 7, 2006 You could get similar power for less money - have a look here. It is horses for courses though and the advantages to the average buyer of having a factory fit, MOT friendly upgrade are not to be sneezed at. If you are not likely to sell your car and maybe have an eye to future upgrades then the aftermarket route is perhaps better and certainly better value. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Dave, Are you concerned about the standard pistons??? 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 did I mention it 🤔 here is C7 TOP South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver-7 Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 One thing to bare in mind is the resale of your car, as an official caterham conversion the factory would still look to buy back your car & cover it with a warrenty ect. As far as im aware Caterham only p/x official untouched cars that rules me out then ! 😬 Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmmarsh Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 You could get similar power for less money - have a look here This (K06a) sound like effectively the same upgrade that CC are offering at a very similar price (£1,445 vs £1,595). The DVA prices haven't moved for ages so they may not be the current list price either. However, as I have an EU2 vvc I am 'watching this space'... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Bailey Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 so they are both bloody expensive then 🤔 😬 how hard is it to fit a set of throttle bodies and plug in an emerald (to a eu2 ?)- not very hard at all the emerald plug is not suitable for use on an EU3 so a system such as MBE would have to be purchased instead If It aint yellow, wonky and wobbly................ 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanP Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Whilst I understand the argument about CC approved upgrades, I do wonder about the quality of the upgrades. The previous owner of my car had CC do the 1.8K supersport upgrade. A couple of weeks ago I took the car to DVA and we found that the inlet timing was a tooth out - Dave fitted verniers and had to add 53thou of lift at TDC. Its totally transformed the car. IMHO there's no way the car should have left the factory that badly setup. I know where my money's going in the future... Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Nearly all of the engines have badly timed cams, mine was the same, before I fitted verniers. They are "setup" to adhere to emissions and the standard maps. Once the cam timing has been done, you should then get the car rolling roaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 it wasnt "badly setup" - its the std rover setup. for the emissions and engine behaviour . here is C7 TOP South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dave - re pistons, the VVC (EU3) used in the later cars are the 160 Trophy version, and have, as I'm lead to believe stronger than STd (non VVC engine) pistons. I think Mr Fender (Ex-rover engineer) has somewhere ITRO 195 - 200bhp form his EU3 VVC on the re-mapped MEMS, using std everything, RTTB's and an 'RX00 exhaust'. I think it also has a lighetweight flywheel. Having driven the car, power delivery was super smooth, and torque was available by the bucket load. no issues with engine picking up cleanly, and power was available immediately I pushed the pedal. Revs rised fereely / dropped off quite quick too depending on what I was doing with the pedals. I must say it was quite impressive. Re supersport conversions from the factory, then its all down to the Std setup and a combination of tolerances that causes the timing to be out. Occasionally DVa nad others will find an engine that will not benefit significatly form having the verniers fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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