meg299 Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Hellooo everyone... I Know what you're thinking - another dull boring K starter problem -- Mines a bit different... I've been transplanting a K series engine into my lovely 7, after the original block went pop. Not knowing much about modern engines & being a cocky Computer / Mechanical Engineer i decided that this is something i could do myself..that was 19 months ago :-( Anyway the K (from a rover 25) is now fitted with lovely Throttle Bodies & an MBE ECU. I've started the car 3 times now, so i know these are all OK. But when starting the whole system occasionally jams...eveything will be spinning fine & then just stops. If you do this too many times in one go then the starter jams open & spins (without turning the engine!) The only way to stop it is to take the battery off. As soon as you put it back on again, off the starter goes (still not turning the engine). I know this isn't a heat problem - the exhuast never even get warm! I'm told i need a heftier starter motor - which will just keep spinning regardless of the back load placed against it. I've currently blown up 3 LRS110 (or VS107) starter [yes i bought them from halfords]. Does anyone know of a solution one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 It may be just be the starter jamming, take it off and check that the actuator is able to twist and slide up and spring return, if not it may be jammed with clutch dust, clean it all with brake cleaner and then spray with some dry type grease, I use Motor bike chain wax. HTH Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meg299 Posted February 23, 2002 Author Share Posted February 23, 2002 As far as i could tell when i took them out there were no obvious physical defects -- there's an internal problem going on here. The solenoids jam on (contacts closed) but the gear doesn't engage - yet still moves freely by hand. I can't see clutch dust being a problem - all the components are brand new & i've never driven it. It also doesn't explain why the engine jams to a stop when it's just starting to fire. I think a bigger starter would solve a lot of problems i just don't know which one. If you've got any further ideas though.... Thanks Mike (meg299) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Ah! re-reads post.... Are you using the caterham bellhousing, starter spacer, and flywheel ? you may have a misalignment problem with the ring gear sad.gif or a mesh problem with the gear sad.gif Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meg299 Posted February 23, 2002 Author Share Posted February 23, 2002 I'm using the standard Rover flywheel, with a bell housing and spacer from Fisher sports cars. As far as i can see the meshing is ok - whats the ring gear & how do i check it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 The ring gear is the toothed drive on the outside of the flywheel, the starter must be aligned so as to mesh with this when the solenoid is activated and the gears engage, if it pulls back too far it may jam sad.gif Lawrence Lawrence Hoy Scottish AO smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meg299 Posted February 23, 2002 Author Share Posted February 23, 2002 Hello Would it do this all the time, or just when it's firing? - it runs all the time without jamming as long as the ignition system is not activated - ie. as long as the engine is not trying to start. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 the solenoid, when activated pulls the starter gear into alignment with the flywheel gear, the starter then turns (cranks) the flywheel, when the solenoid is relased the starer gear spring returns too a free position away from the flywheel. What is it that's running all the time? Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meg299 Posted February 24, 2002 Author Share Posted February 24, 2002 Hiya When the starter fails, with the motor power cable connected & the activate cable not connected the motor of the starter can be heard spinning round. For some reason thought the gear does not engage with the fly wheel teeth - hence the engine is not turned. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meg299 Posted February 25, 2002 Author Share Posted February 25, 2002 I may have a solution..... www.birse.co.uk make brand new 1.4 kW reduction drive starters. Kinda pricy (£200 inc VAT & Postage). The part number is STR-2007 which is a replacement for a LRS100. I've got one on the way. Apparently the solenoid won't suffer from heat so it solves the problem that most people have been having. The extra power it delivers should solve the problems that i've been having. I'll post up a reply on any success that i have. Thanks for all your help. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Sounds suspiciosly like that you are not using the spacer place between the bellhousing and starter flange to give you the correct mesh. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 With regard to the engine "jamming to a stop", how much start advance have you got dialled in to the MBE? Too much cranking advance (or whatever it's called in the MBE system) can cause this - it can also break the starter motor. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Couldn't find any starter motors at www.birse.co.uk, they've got some nice big cranes though. Try www.brise.co.uk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meg299 Posted February 27, 2002 Author Share Posted February 27, 2002 I don't know what starting advance i've got on the MBE system, it was pre-programmed with a map from a Lotus Elise which i've been able to get working a couple of times. They told me that standard Rover parts don't even try and fire for the first 4 rotations to allow it to build up some momentum, but it doesn't sound like their system does anything of the sort. The softwares kinda pricy, & i wasn't planning on playing with the internal settings. The spacer plate is in place - and as far as i can see i'm getting quite a good mesh with the new birse starter - it cranks the engine like a demon [:-)] Sadly it's a bit longer and the solenoid is in the wrong place so i can no longer fit the exhuast manifold [:-(] The lambda sensor hits the back of the starter & the down pipe hits the solenoid. Anyone know of a good manifold supplier / manufacturor? Cheers Guys Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Try www.wunoff.co.uk or www.exhaustsbydesign.co.uk John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 "They told me that standard Rover parts don't even try and fire for the first 4 rotations to allow it to build up some momentum" - that's BS, stock Ks start almost instantaneously, more quickly than anything else I've experienced. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meg299 Posted March 17, 2002 Author Share Posted March 17, 2002 Hi there, Well for anyone that cares there has been a happy ending to my sad tale. The new brise starter motor is significantly more powerful than anything i've had before - the engine now started second attempt & very quickly everytime after that. There wasn't even a hint of the engine jamming. The only problem was the existing manifold interfered with the starter, the lambda sensor hit the starter body & the catalyst hit the solenoid. £120 & a trip to Engine Tech (southampton) the existing manifold was modified with the cat removed & the lambda sensor mounted further down the pipe. They also routed it out the side of the car - a problem i was alredy worried about - 2 birds and everythin... However the new starter takes so much juice that if it doesnt start within 10 attempts it doesn;t start, i may need to buy a bigger battery - or maybe it's time to get on and fit that alternator!! Thanks for all the help Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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