anthony1956 Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I'm a thousand miles from Minister and very nervous... I have been tracking a water loss problem. Losing water very slowly, apparently while car is not in use and since use is only a few hours at a time feels like no loss at all in use. Two litres of coolant lasted weeks. Check oil and add a litre to allow it to find it's own level by ejecting excess to catch tank. This also tends to blast oil all over the place as I suspect the catch tank lid needs a better oil escape prevention lid. I presume pressure is involved else how would the oil get there in the first place, so after high engine revs I see more oil in engine bay. Am accustomed to all this, messy but heck. Recently decided a litre is over doing it and just a waste of oil, will reduce to half litre in future. Pursuit of coolant loss: two days ago tightened all coolant pipe jubillee clips, using socket rather than screwdriver. Significantly tightened all connections. Note dark patch down rad by side of tank on RHS/rear. Suspect this is the leak. Hope it's repairable and not by tank. (Having read this is not repairable). Ordered new 4 core Pace Rad and desire to repair and keep old 3 core as a spare (so far from home). Take car for test drive, short but sweet (some highish revs on return leg). Check water and level down a bit and oil being ejected to catch tank (and elsewhere as usual). Return next day and find header tank coolant ahs dropped by loads (eek!) and a line of dripped fluid on floor where line of rad has been overnight Conclude my tightening all the connections has stopped pressure loss and placed greater pressure on existing hole in radiator, thus making it much worse. Also occurs to me that if I have indeed restored coolant system integrity and so increased pressure, this would explain heat challenges as system has not been operating at designed pressures - of course hole in rad undoes this. A gentle outing today/evening checking coolant at every stop and topping up each time. Final stop before home (for dinner) return to car and check level: dreadful, header tank very low, but not empty. Now worried. Head gasket fears. Having wiped excess oil from everywhere, including my feet, I recall there was no evidence of water in the oil, it looked just like always, golden oily. Notice oil catch tank is less full than at start of journery suggesting pressure in it, but that is usual.. I'm fearing pressure escaping from cyclinders, but the oil catch tank always behaves as above anyway. Engine is running fine, starts ok, runs ok, except low revs, but I have been struggling with that for a while for other reasons (sensors, dirty plugs). Prior to this it was at Minister and was leak tested and serviced (my cheque book thinks it was rebuilt) to restore leak test results to desirable levels - about £2k. I have been watching temperature guages (stack) constantly and seemed ok. Running much less than usual because ambient temps much reduced, indeed it was cold a lot of the time. SO, have a b***ered by head gasket through excess heat hot spots around the gasket by reason of insufficient coolant present in the system? I plan to compression test tomorrow - looking for discrepancies. Nervous. Anthony, not your average gypsy. Edited by - anthonym on 21 Aug 2006 02:41:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitley Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Any coolant leak should be obvious - my car was covered in pink residue left behind by the anti-freeze when the water evaporated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 you need to fix the leaking radiator first ?. Then see if the collant level remains steady why do you keep topping up the oil and then have it all spit out into the catch tank ?. Simply run the engine at idle and then turn off and quickly measure the oil level in the dry sump tank . Should be 10.25 - 11" from base . Use a length of clean rod to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Fix your radiator first... then everything else can be viewed from a level playing field! If you oil is "golden" then you head gasket should be OK. If the gasket blows, the mixture of oil with water is anything but clear and golden. For oil levels, follow David suggestion for dipping. Your compression test should give an indication towards excess crankcase pressure - this could be ring related - and unless you are over filling with oil, could be the cause of your oil problem. JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Lovely, voices of calm. Just what I needed this morning. I'll get the rad dealt with. Follow the oil fill advice, yes I have been pver filling - which is the guidance I have been given, but I will move to using a 24cm marked clean rod, I was about to do that anyway and learn what level she actually likes. Yes, the oil was clean as a whistle. Not so p***ed off after a good night's sleep and your replies. Thanks chaps. Anthony, not your average gypsy. Edited by - anthonym on 21 Aug 2006 10:57:11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Here's the R500 oil fill advice from Minister-power.com: Caterham R500 Evo, R101, R500, R400, Questions Q1 How should I set the oil level in my dry sump oil tank? A The procedure to adopt is to warm the engine up to approximately 70°c water, then turn engine off, remove the oil filler cap, and with a clean steel rule measure from the bottom of the tank (avoiding any misleading castings!) a minimum of 9.5" (24cms) of oil is required. Replace oil filler cap. The advice is to slightly fill above this level and allow the engine to find its own level by throwing some of the excess oil into the catch tank. Close monitoring of this excess oil being thrown out, will gradually indicate the oil level the system will hold. Ideally, the catch tank will have ½" to ¾" (1 to 2cms) of oil in the catch tank after a half hour test session. Check oil level at least every half-hour track use. Taken from www.minister-power.com customer support faq I've been using the integrated dip stick. At 70 deg c the dry sump cap is exceedingly hot and if I don't tighten it greatly is has come off in the past and all get very oily wet, inc me. Granted this is now an upgraded one and where I used to unscrew it, it is now nalied (ok, bolted) in place, with a small dip stick cap, still hard to undo when tight and hot. (puns not intended). Anthony, not your average gypsy. Edited by - anthonym on 21 Aug 2006 10:58:11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 24cm marked clean rod 😬 😬 😬 bloody euro metric I found the intergrated dipstick to bew competly useless. A rod is the best option and then I would check every 2-300 miles road or each trackday session Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrolhead Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Is there not a way to check the oil without the engine running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 yes - you run the engine and then turn off and imediatley check the oil . If you leave the engine standing and off for a while the oil will drain back into the sump pan giving you a false low reading ☹️ The procedure to adopt is to warm the engine up to approximately 70°c water, then turn engine off, remove the oil filler cap, and with a clean steel rule measure from the bottom of the tank Edited by - Dave Jackson on 21 Aug 2006 11:39:42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 mmm so that's what I do, rush (should see that!) out of my seat, take bonnet off, check oil level before it runs away. Yes I suspect dip stick is no good, now off to create a 9 inch (ok! 😬) measured stick thinghy. Actually using a "steel rule".. would be simple to buy. and it won't rust with this purpose.. Sump pan: I wondered where it went. On reflection: I wonder if I should run the engine AFTER removing the cap, to get oil where it should be, as it does take me time to get out of the car, bonnet off, cap off, and measure.. this would explain my (I suspect) often lower than correct readings and consequent over over-filling, then oil everywhere. I read somewhere I have sixty seconds, but of course just to run the engine again to refill the dry sump thing again would make it very simple - how long to run engine to refill dry sump container thing? Anthony, not your average gypsy. Edited by - anthonym on 21 Aug 2006 11:58:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 you need 10.25 - 11" depth of oil from the bottom of the dry sump tank, so you need a far longer ruler or length of rod preferable so that you can be sure of hitting the base of the Dry sump tank and still have a grip on the bit poking out of the top ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 ps - simply leave engine running , get out and then remove bonnet and then switch engine off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 pps - it may be safer if you have adult supervision 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 ok, I can be an expert muppet sometimes... Anthony, not your average gypsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 lol! Anthony, not your average gypsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 suppose I could use my mondeo dipstick and a ruler..:-) or is that being a dipstick rather than using one... Anthony, not your average gypsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrypike Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 as dave says, you need a much longer rod, but mark where the rod comes to when its fully down to the bottom of the sump, then you wont get caught out by ledges en route. then mark your depth up from the bottom i actually take the bolt out of the tower before i kill the engine-do use gloves 😬 jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 oven gloves I was thinking.. is there some simple source of a nice rod that I've missed? Q: do we know the length bottom to top of the ..er.. thing? Edited by - anthonym on 22 Aug 2006 18:34:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davef Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I bought my rod from the local DIY store - aluminium, 1m for £2-3. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I use a brass rod, it does not corrode like steel. R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I have never used a dip stick/rod,I simply look down the swirl tower and fill the oil until it comes just short of the ledge/joint between the bell tank and the swirl tower. You will get a tiny bit chucked into the catch tank at high revs but less than half a cup. I have to say its getting a bit sad if you have to carry oven gloves and a length of ali rod to check your oil . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 lots of unhappy R500 owners then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 howmany inches is that point from the bottom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Same as with rob, I just fill it with oil until its just below the neck. Might get a little bit in the catch tank on the first run but after that it will be spot on and wont get much more out of the overflow. LeMans 2006 photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 dont bother with the gloves etc - just check the oil before you warm the car up whilst at idle on the driveway once per week simple ...... your peering into the tower to see the top lip of the belltank is fine if you have a wide open cap on the tank . Caterham in their wisdom have done several different tops on the tanks - the one which I had only had a small 12mm hole to refill through unless you unscrewed the 6 cap head bolts and took the entire cap off the tank that was a right pain in the 🙆🏻 Then the easy route was to use a length of stainless rod and dip the level Edited by - Dave Jackson on 23 Aug 2006 08:05:59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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