McKlusky Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 As a relative newcomer to this, what advantages are there to fitting verniers to my 1.6SS with QED fast road kit, currently producing 153 bhp at 7,466 rpm and 110ft/pds of torque at 6,943 rpm? I ask because the Steve's at Track'N'Road reckon the cam timing could be out... Andy Keep it shiny side up and between the green bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_H Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Vernier pulleys allow the cams to be rotated slightly, without rotating the engine. or visa-versa. It might not be the answer to your problems, but it's the answer to your question. Edited by - Tim_H on 20 Aug 2006 15:11:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlusky Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Thanks Tim. So what is the advantage of rotating the cams slightly? Andy Keep it shiny side up and between the green bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_H Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 to adjust the cam timing, - possibly in relation to each other, with the rest of the engine. It's a much more accurate method of doing it. It replaces the cam pulleys at the front of the Camshaft, with a pulley with 3 or 4 slots in it, usually held in place with allen bolts or the like. The cam pulley can then be rotated slightly in relation to the other cam, or crankshaft. I'm going back to Ford Pinto days, and Cosworth engines, where they were very common, especially with tuned engines running wild cams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlusky Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Right. So it's a more accurate way of adjusting the cam timing. Any suggestions for where I can get them fitted and at approx what cost? Andy Keep it shiny side up and between the green bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_H Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 . stupid post. sorry Edited by - Tim_H on 20 Aug 2006 16:01:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlusky Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Listen, I'm the stupid one here! 😬 Andy Keep it shiny side up and between the green bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bowler Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Try DVA Power. Dave Andrews (aka Oilyhands) has supplied and/or fitted alot of verniers to K engines, and can advise you further as to their benefits on a specific setup. AB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlusky Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 You live and learn! Thanks for the advice. Andy Keep it shiny side up and between the green bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Andy Oily fitted verniers to my K whilst it was also having a new head gasket. He fitted a wider Piper 'competition' cambelt and removed the tensioner spring and the redundant Rover transverse engine mounting casting. Optimised timing on Supersport cams makes a noticeable difference to the performance. Better midrange torque and a nice lumpy but purposeful idle. See my gallery below for some pics. Bozz My Chocolate Orange here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlusky Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Thanks Bozz. All sounds good. Did you have to have your engine management remapped after the work? Andy Keep it shiny side up and between the green bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Andy Engine already had CC supersport kit (cams and ECU) and runs happily on revised cam timing without any adjustment. Bozz My Chocolate Orange here Edited by - Bozz on 21 Aug 2006 06:07:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Andy, I recommend Vernier pulleys and indeed will not work on any visiting engine that does not fit them. There is a fair amount of manufacturer’s tolerance/movement between the crankshaft and cam belt pulley, which in turn allows for a variation in achievable cam timing and preferred cam timing. If you intend to go this route, DVA is the man to buy them from and if you want to cross the Dartford Pike I'll give you a hand to fit them as you will need access to a couple of dial gauges to effect accurate timing. JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 currently producing 153 bhp at 7,466 rpm and 110ft/pds of torque at 6,943 rpm? These are some pretty weird numbers. The torque peak is very high. There must be something very strange causing this. The 153bhp power peak is at 107lbft. The torque has barely peaked. This suggests that the engine would run to more revs, which is untypical of Supersport cams. No idea what the QED fast road kit entails, but something is not quite right here. Edited by - Peter Carmichael on 21 Aug 2006 12:31:56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Fast Road/Trackday Kit This is our basic upgrade kit for the standard K series engines, and an engine fitted with this kit should produce 175* bhp at around 7000 rpm with peak torque in excess of 140* ftlb from 5000 to 6000 rpm. The kit uses our direct to head throttle bodies to replace the standard induction system, our Q375HK profile camshafts to replace the standard items, and also involves changing the engine management system. The result is an engine that delivers improved performance without an unreasonable loss of road manners. QED's numbers will be on a 1.8. I doubt that the standard head can produce 175bhp. My experience is that 160bhp is achievable with a 1.6 still on Supersport cams. My cam timing is set to 60thou lift on inlet and 40thou on exhaust at TDC. Thsi is conservative for a throttle body equipped car, but works fine. What exhaust? What inlet trumpets? Edited by - Peter Carmichael on 21 Aug 2006 12:39:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Den Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Engine already had CC supersport kit (cams and ECU) and runs happily on revised cam timing without any adjustment. Hi Andy - Like Bozz, I bought some verniers from DVA (Oily) and had 7 Indulgence fit them/retime the cams. Definitely worth doing, it transformed my EU3 1600SS (with the standard SS cams & EU3 MEMS) - the car has a much more purposeful idle, seems to have better throttle response and feels like it has more power than before I also get the odd pop and bang from the exhaust on the over-run now, which takes me back to my Crossflow days 😬 Den http://www.dens7.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlusky Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Thanks for all the info and the offer of help John. Much appreciated. Peter, I have a 4 into 1 Caterham competition exhaust but no idea what trumpet size. When I bought the car, it was fine above 4000rpm but below that and in traffic, it was a bitch. The Steve's at Track'N'Road have made it far more pleasent to drive, which I'm very happy about, but they thought there was something amis somewhere. They asked me if i wanted to see what it produced with a few more revs, but as I'm not into willy waving, I said no. Den, since I've had it remapped, I also get the odd pop and bang - fantastic! Andy Keep it shiny side up and between the green bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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