Alex Wong1697456877 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 No fun in going slower - I tried 1a tyres and the car felt awful! I guess I've gotten used to the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 If we were to ban just A24 compound that would mean serious checking of those cars on acb 10's - not really in the spirit of the way we do things. It is a cost! However even in Class 5 they have lasted significantly longer in terms of number of events than I thought. When competing elsewhere ACB10's seem to be classed along with slicks. ie to run 1B you need to be on Yoko's or something similar. So in order to not change the set up I have to run some old Track day slicks. Pain in the 🙆🏻 Previously you may well know that I said ban them. But I think I'm on the fence now. The record thing would be a problem - we would probably have to start again in class 3 and 5. I also think there would have to be a clear 12mth notice. That is decide this Autumn for 2008 season to give plenty of time to budget/plan. Overall I guess it should stay as is - I think - Maybe - possibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I think there is mixture of series,I think the all circuit championship lets list 1b tyres include x-ply, and the one at longcross allowed them in some class... the record thing would have to be scratched as you say which does have implications for scoring in future years.... I agree if this was going to change then we should be on notice for 12 months so people can plan... if we did ban them I would seriosuly have to think what to do ( i want to stay in the l7 championship and not run in another series), i run a xply setup for competion, road and trackdays and the cost to change setup and tyres for all 3 is not insignificant, i could put some sticky slicks on and go to class 6, but hey with 140 bhp not really competitive plus I would need an extra set of wets....don't really fancy list 1a at all...or run radials on a xply setup which seems just daft.... I think we have to ask what is the purpose of banning these tyres and I can see it from a number of reasons 1. cost, but hey I would want new tyres every year to be competitive? so even going to yoko 48's would cost me 250-300 a year Vs 500 for acb's. The main cost of competing for is the entry fees not the tyres. 2. if it is due to trying to attract new competitorswho feel they might be out classed, then we do have the novice championship, and as I think Dj said the majority of performance gain once you get near the top end is down to driver skill and knoweldge of the circuits and no banning of x-plys is going to make any difference here. 3.other championships ban them so for people competing in multiple championships it is a problem, but this is a real minority I think... We have seen in the last 2 years people coming in to the championship with standard ish cars with no or little expereince doing very well and posting competitive times.... so is it in fact a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I agree Rob. B4 I changed I saw it as a big cost. But really its not as much as I had thought. I just have to use less "GRIP" than on the Yoko's 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 what about allowing 1b radial tyres in class 2 and 4 ? - discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted August 10, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted August 10, 2006 what about allowing 1b radial tyres in class 2 and 4 ? - discuss No thank you - I like driving on tyres with no grip (that cost me around £100 per year!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Lets face it - we all like to "discuss" 😬 the options but the classes are good, well balanced and sorted. Just get rid of that silly class 4 240bhp on hard rubber rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 Just to clarify my personal position. I personally do not want to use A24 ACB's for similar reason to Rob wants to use them. My car gets used a fair bit on the road, I also compete in two other championships which do not allow cross-plies in the road class (aswmc and welsh) So for me to run ACB would mean buying a new set of wheels, and two sets of tyres per year, one radial 1B and the ACB's. The set ups are not compatible between them, different ears and front camber etc. so going from on sprint in one champ to the next sprint in another would be a ball ache. I had similar issue with the aswmc and welsh up to this year , as the welsh insisted on 1A tyres, so I ended up running full modified. I did think of buying some slick to compete, but again It came down to cross ply / radial set differences, so I just ran 1b's in full modified and enjoyied myself at the back. As my first post asked, would we the competition be any less, and would we enjoy ourselves less? if acb's were not allowed. I do not think so IMHO. Just seems strange running tyres which are designed for sprinting, and not really of any use on the road ,in the road class. I know There is class 4 but I tried that last year and they have no grip, except the stunna's , but I do not want to put my car onto 15" wheels, just a personal thing I guess. These are my reasons for not wanting to use them, but Maybe we should get the other championship to fall in line with the seven champion ship. sorry Rob but who's TM 🤔 RED 2.0 HPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Oh Yeh 😳 You must be the only one not to know who TM is 😬 Lets wait and see if he's around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 TM can normally be seen spinning his car at most rounds of the championship 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Ahh yes to quote a friend of mine a "full Nelson" A certain Mr Powell can also be found doing "half Nelson's" 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 Excellent Rob that for me was the line of thw season *thumbup* *thumbup* ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 MSA state a24 are legal for list 1B. I use them on the 7 all year round. I am still using last years for the road and test days. If we ban a24 then we need to get ride of class 3. class to on the stunners are puting in very good time. I think stunner are better than cr500. So what are we saying no class 3 if so were does this leave class 5? In class 3 I have noticed that this year more people are running on ACB10's. Robin said it has made a big diffrence to his driving and we can all see the improvement he has mad ethis year. He is not the only one. the 1st 8 places at MIRA were all on acb10's in class 3. You all have an option if you do not what ACB 10's A24 go into class 2. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 ......................Slicks 😬...........Used all season then cut into really sticky wets for £40 '......in yer bike!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 the classes are good, well balanced and sorted. and this is a serious contribution are the classes well balanced and sorted ? Class 2 and 3 cater for the std K series on plenhum, class 5 is realy only suited to 200 + bhp cars. I know of several people who have not entered or no longer enter as they have cars such as R300, VVC, lightly modded K or VX on injection @ 180bhp . These cars dont realy have a competive class at the moment and there is a significant number of them. Difficult I know to cater for the huge number of models that Caterham have produced . The entry numbers are falling for most rounds this year and last year(despite the registered numbers being steady at about 100 ish) and maybe we need to think now in readiness for 2008 season . ps - this is not a critism of the championship just a healthy constructive discussion point. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Class 3 bigger entres than last year. R300 lightly mod K's: Thier in class 4 or 5 what the problem? Dave as you have said you only have a little unmoded 1.6K so do not have much power but you are doing ok in class 3. If you look at the times of class 3 and then class 5 the smaller BHP 7 are not that far of the pace. I think that their will need to be a rethink on classes once CC new engine line-up is sorted and we know how quick they are. Back to R300 not many made, owners likley to upgrade due as most 7 owners do. Whats the max bhp lb for an R300? In your hands Dave would you be much slower than your big engine 7? So to all that have R300 or mod k's have a go in class 4, 5 or 6. see if you like it try a whole season. if you like it , stand up and say we need a change or mod your 7 further and enjoy the speed. For me class 2 and 3 means i can not spend lots of money the engine. if class 2 - 3 were open to R300 upto 180 ishBHP i would either change to a 1.6 and try a diffrent champoinship or spend loads of money and go class 4-5-or 6. We already have the potentail for large x-flows in class 2-3 and as you might find out some sprints like lots of power. anyway back to tyres IF you do not what to run ACB 10's go and play in class 2 or 4. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Whilst in my more inclusive mood, I tend to agree with DJ that something needs to be done to allow owners of the cars that don't fit class 2/3 but are un competitive in classes 4/5. But I am unsure exactly what that would look like in terms of class structure . However the fact that r300's, VVC's etc aren't competitive is due to the big HP cars in classes 4&5 rather than the runners in class 2&3, so rather than making changes in those classes maybe the place to make changes is 4&5. The question is can we sustain another 1 or 2 classes for the above, an how much would that dilute the champsionhip by having more classes? Many (or a few anyway ) of us in classes 2&3 have developed there cars soley with the l7 champsionship regs in mind, not neccersarily what makes sense from an upgrade point of view, and being selfish I think any changes we make has to take this into account...so the idea that if any changes are greed then they shouldn't be put in place till 2008 makes total sense as it allows competitors time to plan there course of action.. Rob PS Simon, my half nelson[/] line was my funny one for the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Did you knw that class 3 was the biggest class in this years champoinship. I think Rob could be right a chamge to class 5 is needed. I know one person that stopped sprinting as he felt he could not compete with 230 bhp in class 5. so what about class 3 upto 140 ish well as it is. next class for R300, VVC's tweeked 1.6 or 1.8K's say 160 bhp to 210 bhp next class 210bhp or above. The middle class would be fine for R300, VVC, SLR, R400, 180 bhp X-flows we could keep some thing standard like no sequental gear boxs. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted August 11, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted August 11, 2006 If we're talking classes. Whilst I see that R300's may not have a class to run in, how many R300's are there out there that may be thinking of having a go? To say that an R300 has 160bhp, and that the most powerfull class 2 and 3 K's are close to this, does not tell the whole story. Removing the Plenum and fitting throttle bodies makes the car a lot more drivable, with a much better spread of torque, making for quicker times. The problem with R300's, is that they look no different on the outside to an R400 or R500 (or even a 1900 monster). The classes that we have at the moment are still quite easy to police. Adding more classes makes things more difficult. In addition, Classes 4 and 5 are typically less well supported anyway without futher division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 To say that an R300 has 160bhp, and that the most powerfull class 2 and 3 K's are close to this. 160 BHP in Class 2 and 3 thats not fair. I only have 140 bhp David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 DN - so what if i had 150 bhp, no where to go in your breakdown Richard - policing is a good point, but even know how can you tell if a K with a plenum hasn't got bigger than standard valves...we have to take a lot on trust, we have a number of venues where there are speed traps and these never lie so if someone is cheating it would show up... lets not forget a lot of us are serious about this competing, but at the end of the day it is largely for fun and should be treated that way rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 David - lifes not fair 😬 or so my mum used to say... we are never going to please every one,and we have to strke the balance somewhere between pleasing existing competitors and those that we wish to attract... rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Rob Class 3 as is no need to change David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Why not keep it the same for one more year then have a big review at the end of next year because; a/ Some local sprint championships are rumoured to be looking at excluding crossply road legal tyres next year and so a few more folks might feel more inclined to use radials if this happens. b/ The new Sigma engines will hopefully be established then and a full review of the engine rules would be needed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Robinson Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Wasn't this argument about tyres we seem to have moved onto engines now IMO the class structure is about as good as it can get without subdividing too far. The only hesitation is on the X-flows in 2 and 3, surely once you are beyond the 140-150 BHP mark then that is a class 4/5 car along with the R300's and fully tweaked K's. Fact is that class 3 will be topped by drivers with the best spec possible AND the greatest skill levels so it must be about right. This is borne out by my perfromances where my car seems as strong as the best in class through the speed trap but I am 2 seconds off the pace at MIRA. That is down to skill and set-up which is what should sort the wheat from the chaff. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 not correct re spec Steve . I was driving Red Daves car at Pembrey in class 3 . Heavy with no diff , no quick rack , no engine mods in 1600cc no fancy dampers. straight from the showroom / crate. I went round OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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