sump foam

[oilyhands]

I'm not implying anything, I've posted many times advising against the use of sump foam because I have seen many engines damaged as a direct result of it's use.

 

The sump gasket modification is a simple one, on the exhaust side of the engine all of the returning oil gathers in the wedge shaped area formed by the sump gasket and the side of the engine and gradually spills over along the length of the gasket, two carefully drilled holes through the gasket near the crankcase edge and in line with the pickup will cause all returning oil to deposit itself near the pickup rather than along the length of the sump. This has to be a good thing.

 

The us of the foam/baffle plate is necessary because the Caterham sump is shallow and has no real well around the pickup, consequent aeration of the oil / windage and surge can cause problems.

 

There is a photo of a gasket suitably modified forwarded by me and subsequently posted on the 'net somewhere, I believe it may be Myles' site.

 

Oily

[TonyR]

The attached should link to the gasket modification.

 

http://members.aol.com/DVAndrews/kgasket.jpg

 

I have removed the foam and modified the sump gasket.

 

TonyR

[Englishmaninwales]

Also, what / where is a Hellier baffle?

 

This is a light alloy fabrication with rubber one way flap valves that sits in the sump around the pickup. The idea is that it will maintain a pool of oil around the pick up and retain the oil there under surge conditions. Whether it works or not is open to debate. Do a search, there have been several threads.

 

[Unclefester]

Thanks Oily! As it's a rubber gasket (I think) it's probably re useable....I don't have time for ordering one here.....so I'll try & re-use it.

 

TonyC, so you are running with the gasket mod and no Hellier baffle and so far no sign of oil starvation /surge on cornering?

 

I am used to the old baffled sumps which had a system of metal walls with one way flaps in them to retain oil in the middle near the pickup. These seemed to work well enough.

 

NICE PLATE!!!

😬 😬here *eek*

[CageyH]

But where should the foam sit?

Above the windage plate, or in the bottom of the sump?

 

I suppose the only real answer is to dry sump the car, and risk the drive belt snapping

 

Edited by - CageyH on 8 Aug 2006 08:20:29

[Colin Mill]

Hi CageyH - In the bottom of the dustbin I think 😬

 

I wonder what the chances are that a Rolls Royce Trent engine has a strategically located loofa in its lubrication system 😬

[TonyR]

Unclefester,

 

Yes, so far not noticed any drop cornering. I would still prefer to have the engine dry sumped.

 

TonyR

[Tom_C]

Colin, I'll ask my sister-in-law, she's a buyer on the Trent line, so might have access to aero grade foams

 

Cheers

 

Tom

 

FH54WLX - only the car supports ManU, honest!

 

see here - UPDATED

[CageyH]

I heard rumours that they had some in the new larger oil tanks in the 900's

[Fathead]

so what do we reckon... leave out the sump foam??

 

Tom The most southerly uk blatter

😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here

[Colin Mill]

Given that its been shown that the foam can actually cause the oil starvation that it is presumably intended to prevent I think its right to take it out. I would perhaps think differently if someone from CC would join this debate and explain the way the foam is supposed to work with test data to back the theory up and a clear statement as to what it is made of and a data sheet to show it is safe with all the oil additives used in certain specified brands of oil.

 

I'm not holding my breath!

[Unclefester]

Has anyone actually asked CC how they perceive the risk of driving 10k miles with this stuff in the sump?

 

By the way, is it just a ring around the oil pickup? Or is it covering the whole sump base?

 

NICE PLATE!!!

😬 😬here *eek*

[Tom_C]

just (tonight) dropped the sump on mine after 10k including a couple of races in Academy. Foam is ok but a bit crunchy round the edges. Still going to throw it away.

 

Also found random rubber plug in the sump. I'll post a piccy later for it to be identified.

 

Fester, it is clamped above the oil pickup by the windage plate, but the edges tend to fall off.

 

[Unclefester]

I'm literally GAGGING to have a look in my sump now! *eek*

 

It all sounds very strange...."The Spawn of Beelzebub" ..........very good, Mr Oily.

 

NICE PLATE!!!

😬 😬here *eek*

[Mickrick]

It's a service interval change item anyway. CC put it there for a reason, so why not change it regularly. like you're supposed to?

[AdamQ]

Has anyone actually asked CC how they perceive the risk of driving 10k miles with this stuff in the sump?

 

I don't know about 10k miles, but I seem to have got away with driving for about 20 miles after the foam disintegrated. I saw the oil pressure drop to about 1 bar as I was accelerating up a slip road onto the M25. I immediately pulled onto the hard shoulder and checked the oil level and looked for leaks or an absent sump plug and that sort of thing. I restarted and pressure was constant at about 1 bar regardless of engine speed. As it wasn't in the red I (naively perhaps) continued to drive home, extremely gingerly. For information, the blocking of the pick-up pipe by the crispy seaweed causes a horrible asthmatic rasping wheezing noise.

 

I did replace the foam, but will be taking it out at the next available opportunity (sooner rather than later given the comments at the start of this thread and my HGF in May). The car has done about 4500 miles since I replaced the foam.

 

Adam

[Jason Plato]

Mickrick - beacause it has been seen to disintergrate in a far shorter period of time than the 6 K miles between services or oil changes. The actual reasons why some have disintergrated so soon is open to debate - is it oil type used , contamination from coolant ? over heated oil ?.

 

bet my bottom dollar that CC will not make any statement that could result in questions over the durability of the foam. The cost of replacement / removal from owners cars is too great.

 

If I had a wet sump with foam, I think I would remove it.

 

 

 

 

here is C7 TOP

South Wales AO

[Mickrick]

Then I think whoever has had problems with this should contact CC, and CC should make a statement.

[Rob Walker]

I fitted a new foam baffle to a 1.8K three weeks ago whilst doing and engine transplant from a 1.4 ,it lasted only a few days in the 1.8 engine, less than 100 miles road use before breaking up and blocking the oil pickup pipe? The oil used was Halfords Fully synth.

 

Years ago circa 97/98 I ran foam baffles in my old car and had no problems for 10k miles but I used Comma SynG. I wonder If the spec of the foam has changed or is it the Halfords oil ? My advise would be run without the foam baffle and mod the sump gasket as per Oily`s instruction.

 

Rob

[Tom_C]

I thought the Halfords and syner-G oils were the same product anyway?

 

 

Cheers

 

Tom

 

FH54WLX - only the car supports ManU, honest!

 

see here - UPDATED

[Colin Mill]

I think Dave is right - there is zero chance of CC making any worthwhile statement on this for fear of the cost. One of the down sides of our compensation culture - the truth is far to expensive to contemplate.

[Jason Plato]

but was the foam changed after the initial head gasket failier on the donor engine Rob ? could the foam have been contaminated with coolant ?

 

here is C7 TOP

South Wales AO

[Jason Plato]

I fail to see that the commer syner G and halfords oil is the same .

 

They are different colours .

 

here is C7 TOP

South Wales AO

[Unclefester]

>

 

Whether CC make a statement or not, they are very exposed on this I reckon.

 

However, CC buy in from outside suppliers, who must be insured, you would hope!

 

If CC had to come clean about this issue, they could I think claim off the foam supplier or manufacturer. It is clearly "not fit for the purpose" with the level of failure we have seen.

 

I can understand them not wanting to do a recall, but presumably this muck was fitted ingood faith, after discussion with its makers about the performance and service life.

 

I have been using semi synthetic oil in our SV so doubtless it's like a load of chop suey in there now....just spiffy, with us going on holiday on Saturday morning.

 

I will remove the stuff, drill out the gasket, and hope for the best while avoiding fast corners.....great ☹️

 

Blackout!!!

😬 😬here *eek*

 

Edited by - Unclefester on 9 Aug 2006 09:57:23

[Colin Mill]

Mine is grounded till I can take the foam out (otherwise, with my luck, Sod's law is bound to apply)

 

I can't see any foam supplier making any kind of claim for the ability to sit in 80 deg C oil especially for the

small quantity that CC use. The foam supplier would leave it entirely to CC to decide if it was suitable to

the purpose - after all, its off the bottom of the clock as a piece of engineering - Can you visulise a phone

conversation like this? :-

 

"Hello, is that XYZ foams? this is CC here. We are looking for some foam to put in the sump of our

engines."

 

"Certainly sir, would you be looking for the same grade as used by Aston Martin and BMW or would the

Ford grade do?"

 

Foam belongs in the seats for heaven's sake!

 

Colin