johnpbransfield Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 a few answers please lads !!! 1) At what mileage should they be changed ? 2) does the engine need one or can one run without ? 3) what do they do ? 4) is it a straight forward job to do ?I understand that you have to be careful doing up the sump bolts. As ever thanks in advance for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsta Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Where's that can of worms?!?!?! If in doubt, change it! Can run without...many do, others say it is in wrong place anyway... Stops windage from crank by stopping oil sloshing all over the place....does NOT prevent surge! Yes easy enough, but be careful when making holes for the windage plate to go back on...If I were you though I'd not bother with it, cause more concern than it's worth (plus it is not cheap). Therer are some mods you can do down there...see previous posts. Sump bolts aren't the problem BTW AFAIK (loving these abreviations) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Steve Wright Posted June 13, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted June 13, 2006 Worms all over the place.... So does a Hellier baffle replace a foam baffle or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Not really, but I think people who've fitted the Hellier baffle tend to remove the foam.. as Kevsta said the foam combats windage whereas the Hellier kit is designed to ease oil surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Steve Wright Posted June 13, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted June 13, 2006 Excuse the pun, but I'm still baffled I guess that is because I cannot see the location of foam baffle until I get the sump off, and am still waiting to collect the Hellier. I was hoping to replace the foam with something more permanent. What is windage? Just the crankshaft thrashing through the oil in the sump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 The hellier baffle kit sits in the very bottom of your sump pan, it is designed to keep as much oil as possible in the area where the oil pickup pipes rests whereas the foam is wedged in higher up (where the sump bolts back onto the engine?) - I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsta Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Foam is attacched to the bottom of the engine and is held in place by a windage plate (sort of like a tray that the oil drops off into the sump...it's attached to the bottom oil rail). Windage is as you say, crank thrashing through oil (though not in sump) and adding wind to it (plus it saps power a bit). Air in oil = bad news!!! Hence people put an apollo in! The hellier baffle is supposed to keep the oil around the oil pick up point better through cornering etc. To be honest, I would have thought that a hellier and no foam would be fine as the foam is not really needed due to the windage plate (plus if you have apollo) plus there is the risk of it blocking the pick up if it breaks up! Alternatively....invest money in a dry sump system. Those are the options. (just be sure to get the belt tension right...unlike me!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 On my K I have an Apollo, no foam and Oily's sump gasket mod. Bozz My Chocolate Orange here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 We dumped the foam bit ages ago after we picked up bits of the 'original' one from the sump bottom. Agree with all of Kevsta's posts. There was a recent thread about the lack of oil pressure caused by oil pick-up being blocked by old foam. We run no foam, with Hellier baffle and apollo - never had any issues in tens of thousands of miles with this set-up. Will no doubt add Oilys slight gasket mod when we next take it apart.... www.mycaterham.com here 91,000 miles -1st 1.6k Supersport, '95 Motor Show car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I run a hellier baffle, no foam baffle, an appollo tank and a DIY gasket mod similar to Oily's modification in an 1800. The hydraulic camfollowers still rattle like hell on trackdays/sprints and the early VDO undamped oil pressure gauge is all over the place when the car is cornered hard. (I have trained myself not to look at the gauge anymore). My conclusion is that the oil is still foam and oil surge remains significant. I'm fitting a dry sump this winter. Just hope the bearings last until then. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Steve Wright Posted June 13, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted June 13, 2006 I can now see why this is a can of worms. Thanks everyone. Just one more thought, any device that slows down migration of the oil from the pickup pipe must have the same action in reverse? - Therefore once you reach the point of no return when there is no oil under the pickup pipe, it will take longer than normal for the oil to drain back once the cornering force is removed? Hence a longer period with no oil being picked up? Ohh errr 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 No - one way trap doors allow flow into the right area, and swing shut to prevent flow away . .. I use the foam and an apollo - seems okay so far . . . one foam change, 20,000 miles - no track work tho - but lots of very enjoyable Alpine roads 😬 I reckon the foam possibly stops oil climbing up the block walls under corning/braking/accelerative forces. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Steve Wright Posted June 13, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted June 13, 2006 Excellent!Cheers everybody *thumbup* visit Carrotland.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Steve Wright Posted June 14, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted June 14, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Steve Wright Posted June 14, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted June 14, 2006 It takes me a while for these things to sink in. WHat happens when you drain the sump for an oil change? Does the Hellier retain the oil Finally (I hope) and now that I have hijacked John's thread, are there any tips on removing and refitting the sump bolts. Sequence? Torques? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_C Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Steve, there's a write-up on the oil change proceedure on Myles' website. Cheers Tom FH54WLX - only the car supports ManU, honest! see here - UPDATED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_SS Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 John, like Angus I can't recommend replacing the foam baffle - see here Edited by - Ben_SS on 14 Jun 2006 11:39:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpbransfield Posted June 14, 2006 Author Share Posted June 14, 2006 see what you all mean by "can of worms" Thanks for all your input. I have had no problems so far,but I presume prevention is better than cure!! Might go down the "appollo /no foam route" Shall wait and see if someone posts "DON'T DO THAT "!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadsport06 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I am in the same boat as you, but I have the apollo and foam but dont know whether to get rid of the foam. It doesnt stop surge from what I can make out but is windage a problem? I think this has been covered with so many opposing views but I think the foam will eventually come out of my 1.8k if windage is not a problem BRG and Yellow nose VU06 XZX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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