Ben_SS Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 I've had my 1996 1400SS Roadsport for 12 months and about 7000miles. It's a great combination of revvy engine and 6speed box, however reliability has been an issue with cooling and oil problems and pending further investigation the engine may need a rebuild. I know a quite a few on here have 'upgraded' to larger K series but I was wondering if its worth the extra money and bother? I'm thinking of spending the extra that would be need on a larger engine on making the 1400 'better' (read more reliable) and minor mods like lightened flywheel etc. Also I could probably afford a rebuild now but an engine swop would have to wait until Oct due to other commitments. Any advise please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 starter question - what would be your budget ?. This could determine the course of action . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_SS Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 It all depends doesnt really. I have read some of the history on Techtalk and am thinking <£1000 for a DIY swop How much is a rebuild in general terms, about £500 if I do everything but the actual rebuild myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Tim_ Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Ben, as a guide Scholar quoted me £550 + parts + VAT to rebuild my dis-assembled 1600K. - Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Ben Email me via profile and I'll send you a full breakdown of my costs (2005 prices) Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_SS Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Other than damaging bearings on trackdays I thought the 1400's were built proof. I changed the bottom end of mine to a 1800 and it's well worth the money for the extra power/torque (c.£1000 is about right assuming your doing the work yourself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_SS Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Allen, can you point me in the direction of 1400 with 1800 bottom end? Is just a case of getting a whole standard 1800 and swopping everything to the bottom end? I could nick the K out of my Mrs Freelander.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_SS Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 I've tracked down a few more threads such as http://www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=77044 plenty of research to be going on with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky dicky Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Ben Stu Forshaw at Warrington has a lot of knowledge about this conversion. Come along to a LADS or MADS meeting for advice from him, Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris__ Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 What's up with the engine Ben? Sorry to hear you're having difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Ben YHM regarding 1400 to 1800 swap, including costing Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitley Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 If you want to do it on the cheap and PDQ just buy a plain 1.8K (I paid £400), swap over the inlet (keeping the 1.8 injectors), flywheel, water rail, starter and alternator, grind the block to fit the starter, shorten the gearbox input shaft and drop the engine in. The MEMS does't match the SS cams but it runs OK and you'll have much more power than the 1.4. The only other costs I remember are the spigot bearing (pennies) and dizzy drive for the EU3 engine (£30 for a 1.5" bar ). Later on you can swap the cams. Fatalism means never having to wonder if it's safe to overtake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitley Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Oh. I think I had the last of the lightened 1.4 flywheels... 1.4 has a different crank position sensor pattern to the 1.6/1.8 and the MEMS only works with its own type. Fatalism means never having to wonder if it's safe to overtake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_SS Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Sounds easy Edited by - Ben_SS on 16 May 2006 10:56:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Tony, what is the lightened 1.4 flywheel like? I think I have one in the shed. Also, are you sorted for your TPS? I have one and an ally TB in the same box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitley Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 The lightened 1.4 flywheel? Well, it was round. And lighter than the old one. Oh, and a different colour I may have a picture somewhere (sad...). I'm running with a borrowed plastic TB at the moment (Thanks Bozz ). It's OK but less than perfect - do you want to sell yours? I only really want the TPS (JZX 2963 or maybe JZX 2962). Ben - it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted May 16, 2006 Leadership Team Share Posted May 16, 2006 BOSS - this shed's turning out to be a bit of an Aladin's cave Ben - you're Manchester based If you can get along to the Daresbury meet sometime there's a number of us who've done the conversion - to cars from 93,94 & 95 era. I'll be away with the family at the time of the next meet (half term) but I'm sure a couple of the other cars will be around - Andy S and Malcolm (Englishmaninwales). The method of conversion differs depending upon the exact age of the car - my car, although registered in 96 is actually a 95 build. Major changes were made at the start of '96. For pre-96 cars, there's 2 options: 1. Swap the bottom end, injectors and fuel pressure regulator. Keep the flywheel, 1400 ecu, and wiring intact. This is how the 3 of us have done the conversion. 2. Swap the engine, ecu, whole lot for an 1800 setup, making the necessary changes to the wiring loom (I think Peter C and a few others have some experience of this method) For post-96 cars (no personal experience, but a simple assumption!), swap the engine and ecu for the 1800 version. Is your chassis pre-or post 1996? Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lynch Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Thinking of doing this too. Quote from Stu's conversion document:- '1400s use the Rover-36/2 pattern (2 missing teeth) whereas 1600/1800s are the Rover-36/4 pattern. Retain the original flywheel (or same type) and you can retain the 1400 MEMS.' ... and some of you have the 1400 flywheels lying around after Caterham sold them off cheap.... I need to find out if I have later high flow 1400 head (1995 car). Whole point of this method for me is retaining the EU2 Brain and wiring. Else it'll be reloom and EU3 for me. 1.4K SS 😬 Photo's here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lynch Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Bet me to it Stu 1.4K SS 😬 Photo's here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_SS Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Thanks Stu, I'll check my diary and try and make it down to Daresbury Mine is no. 27 Limited Edition Road Sport, I'm not sure of the actual age, I'll have to have a poke around and try and find out. Am I reading it right, post '96 1400s have the same wiring loom as the 1800 then? I'm starting to think the problem at the moment is the foam baffle breaking up again rather than terminal failure. Will try and check tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_SS Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 The MEMS does't match the SS cams but it runs OK and you'll have much more power than the 1.4 Tony - I'll have less power wont I? 130 vs 120 or are you talking torque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted May 16, 2006 Leadership Team Share Posted May 16, 2006 Ben - the run of 30 limited edition 1400 supersports in 1996 were all post '96 chassis cars presumably with post '96 wiring - yours may actually be a very straightforward conversion enabling use of an 1800 mems, flywheel etc. David - the post '96 cars are not automatically EU3. The wiring differs on the '96-on cars, but EU3 only came in later (around 2000, legislative requirement from Jan 2001). Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Not the cheapest route, but my son's 1400K SS lost it's bearings at Croix and as this would be the 3rd rebuild one of which included a re-ground crank we decided to ditch the whole engine and start again. Second hand 1600K SS EU3 but without sump, ignition or clutch but complete with lightweight flywheel. £700 New clutch centre plate £30 approx (can't recall exactly) Clutch housing - free from old engine New CRB - £10 about. 5 speed gearbox refresh at Road and Race £160. Emerald ECU £450 (about that - look on the Emerald site) Apollo £180 approx Larger radiator £180 approx Hoses belts etc £20 Oils £50 Sump pan - free from old engine Thermostat housing - free from old engine Distributor - free from old engine Distributor drive spigot recovered from old engine camshaft - free Inlet plenum with 55mm TB from old engine - free New baffle plate about £15 New bolts and bits say another £20 Angle grinder - don't ask 😬 £30 Mapping at Emerald £300 plus travel. Hire of engine hoist twice £50 Sundry gaskets £20 £2215 and it made 148bhp at 7100rpm and 119lb ft at 5000rpm. Very please with the result and also learnt one hell of a lot about taking engines in and out of 7s and taking them to bits and putting them back together. The best buy was the angle grinder used to shorten the gearbox input shaft to fit the new engine. 😬 Not having a clutch alignment tool we used the gearbox as the alignment tool then put the complete drive train back in in one hit. Believe me we tried it both ways and although it looks impossible to put it all in fully assembled it's by far the easiest way. Fitting the Apollo with the exhaust removed is also a lot easier than trying the same in situ, but look at Angus and Tessa's web site re removing a bit of crankcase surplus metal to get the hoses past the alternator. C7 CDW Edited by - David W on 16 May 2006 11:42:39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_SS Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Thanks for the break down Dave. Stu, what, if any, advantage is there to just exchanging the short engine for a 1800, rather than exchanging the whole engine? BTW SWMBO said I cant have the freelanders 1800, spoil sport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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