R400 Duratec misfire -- update - now with flexicoil loom fitted

[John Vine]

Traced to a broken (brown) lead to #1 coil, just where it enters the Econoseal plug. Fortunately, it was an easy fix with a short length of wire and a soldering iron.

 

Also, while checking over the other engine-top wiring, I discovered that the rear nearside edge of the carbon-fibre plug cover had worn through the insulation of three wires in the loom (feeds to coils and injectors). I'd guess a short-circuit was imminent . I bound each wire individually with tape, and then inserted a fat rubber grommet to protect the cable loom where it passes under the plug cover.

 

Has anyone else encountered these problems?

 

JV

 

Edited by - John Vine on 16 Jun 2010 17:54:46

 

Edited by - John Vine on 22 Jun 2010 17:39:32

[spiderlane]

Hi John

 

That's interesting - it seems that my car (R400 SV) already has a grommet there if I understand you correctly.

 

See this picture -> http://gallery.me.com/mark.lane#100193/Fourth-20Day-20of-20Build--20Wiring-20and-20Plumbi_2&bgcolor=black

 

Perhaps yours was missing, or it was something they added to the design later?

 

ETA - Link, Clarity

 

Edited by - spiderlane on 8 Apr 2010 15:19:53

[John Vine]

Yes, Mark, that's the fella. My engine (April 2008 kit) was supplied without the grommet. Also, your loom is slightly different. You seem to have the main loom plus a separate bunch of wires passing through the grommet. My loom is all bound together as one. So, it looks as though CC have modified the design. JV

[Angus]

I also have spotted this engine loom chafing problem on mine - a late 2007 kit. I have made a partial improvement by lining the cut-out in the coil cover with a bit of the CC-supplied cycle wing edging. Not ideal because the loom underside can still chafe on the metal edge of the cam cover. I like the idea of the grommet - I will try and get one from CC.

 

Suggest other Duratec owners check their engine looms.

 

Angus

 

 

 

 

[Gasmaninaseven]

Mines an early 2007 kit; I've had the broken wire where it enters the plug to the coil; fixed that and in due course had a new engine loom under warranty.

 

Had another misfire which I assumed was the same again, but this time coil pack failure ( this one was different to the other three and labelled as a "test" item )

 

I've hitched up the loom to try to prevent chafing- mine looks different to Spiderlane's too.

 

Neil

 

Build pictures here

Guantanamo Bay Orange SUPERLIGHT R400......

 

[Tangerine Dream]

That's interesting - it seems that my car (R400 SV) already has a grommet there if I understand you correctly.

 

See this picture -> http://gallery.me.com/mark.lane#100193/Fourth-20Day-20of-20Build--20Wiring-20and-20Plumbi_2&bgcolor=black

---

 

FWIW, my 2010 factory build has wiring & grommet pretty much as shown in the quote. Only difference is the smaller loom is tied to the bigger.

 

==================================

R400SV in orange - so far unmodified!

[spiderlane]

Hi TG - I don't suppose you have any pictures of the general wiring layout and routing in the engine bay? I've wired up my engine, but not cable tied things down yet and I'd love to see how the factory do it.

 

Thanks

Mark

 

(Sorry about the thread hijack)

[Tangerine Dream]

Well the factory missed off my aero whiskers and it seems now gave me the wrong brake cylinder cap! But, yes, you are welcome to some pics. I will take a few today.

 

==================================

R400SV in orange - so far unmodified!

[spiderlane]

Ah yes, the joys of owning a low volume British sporstcar - I know exactly how you feel :)

 

Thanks for the offer of pics, much appreciated

 

Mark

[Tangerine Dream]

OK, I have just taken a few. Photobucket allows me up to 1024X768. If you need a fuller resolution one then send me a private message and I will email it. I have done my best to make contrast OK but actually have almost zero idea how to use image editing tools!

 

This link will get you there

 

==================================

R400SV in orange - so far unmodified!

[spiderlane]

Thanks TG, very much appreciated and useful beyond the wiring because it shows the hose layouts for the DS breather and expansion bottle which is the job I've been doing today.

[sjmmarsh]

How do you tell if the coil packs are OK? (CSR 260)

 

I was at Cadwell today - on the last session the engine seemed to stutter slightly - I still got my best lap time of the day though (data logger - analysed at home).

 

On the way back, the stutter got worse but was intermittent as well. It feels like the rev limiter is cutting in momentarily (but around 3k) and was more likely to happen on a light throttle setting, making cruising at 60 interesting at times.

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Steve

[John Vine]

Steve,

 

Some possible checks...

 

After a period of misfiring, is one primary cooler than the others?

 

Are the wires that enter each coil 2-pin plug sound? That was where my trouble started, and even with one wire completely broken, that cylinder continued to fire, albeit intermittently, due to an occasional sparky contact I suppose.

 

Are the pins clean, with the spring strip making a good electrical contact? Having removed the pin to repair my broken connection, I discovered that the contact area was a bit carbonised, and the little spring pad was squashed a bit. Cleaning everthing in meths, and prising up the spring to increase contact pressure, seemed to fix it.

 

As for the coils, I've no idea how to check them. A local Ford dealer told me that these coils could be unreliable. Maybe you could take all four into your nearest and ask them to test them for you?

 

JV

[sjmmarsh]

Thanks for the pointers John.

 

I will check the wiring tonight, particularly as the coil cover lost a bolt early in the day.

 

Interestingly I have always had a misfire, but as it only ever happened 3 or 4 times a year and CC couldn't fix it, I have just lived with it. It only presented at around 4000 rpm under full throttle acceleration. Not every time either.

 

I have order two coil packs just in case (I need the car this weekend and they won't go off) as I understand they tend to fail in pairs. Does anyone know the pairing? 1/4 and 2/3 seem to be common for other engines but could not find duratec specific info.

 

Steve

 

Steve Marsh

My Caterham Page

 

[sjmmarsh]

John

 

The wiring looks ok and there was nothing odd with the coil packs.

 

I did a temperature check of the primaries. After about 2 mins idling, three of them were at 250C and one was 400C (the front primary), but measuring about 6" further down the pipe, they all were around 220C..

 

Not sure what that is telling me!

 

Steve

[John Vine]

Steve,

 

The nice even temps seem to suggest that the motor's not missing when idling. It would be good if you could repeat the test during a brisk run at the point when you detect misfiring. When I had my problems, I quickly took the bonnet off and gingerly touched each pipe in turn (I had no meter handy). #1 was noticeably cooler than the others, which at least indicated where I should look first.

 

You mentioned a datalogger. Is it capable of tracking exhaust temps, misfires etc?

 

Re your coils etc, you mentioned pairs, so I imagine the CSR260 set-up is different to the R400. I have four separate coil-over-plug assemblies, each fed independently, and all having the same P/N. I bought a spare from a Ford dealer, and he confirmed that there was only the one variety for my engine (also used on the Focus, I believe).

 

Perhaps a query to Cosworth might elicit something?

 

JV

[John Vine]

An update....

 

CC Engineering have recently developed a revised R400 Duratec coil sub-loom. It's described in Workshop Notice WN515 and called a "flexi-coil loom" -- P/N 3AL080A. BM me if you'd like a copy of the WN.

 

It requires the existing coil loom to be cut out and a 6-pin plug inserted to connect in the new loom. I've just ordered it (£27.50 + P&P), and will report back once I've fitted it.

 

JV

[John Vine]

Andrew, YHM.

 

Angus, I've just tried to reply to your email but it was rejected. The error message said it couldn't recognise "world.com". I think maybe there's an error in your BC profile address. It seems to read "nt; world.com". I've tried re-sending the email to "ntlworld.com", hoping that's correct.

 

JV

[Angus]

John

 

Thanks, and YHM

 

Yes, sorry, typo in my mail address. You guessed correctly !

 

Angus

 

[John Vine]

A further update... I've now fitted the flexi-coil loom. There are lots of pics here. It was pretty straightforward, but here are a few tips: # When ordering, be sure to ask CC to send you the 6-pin male connector and the little yellow insert. You need this to hook into the engine loom (according to WN515, the R500 already has this connector fitted). These bits weren't included with my loom (3AL080A). # You'll need a wire-stripper, a crimping tool and some cable ties. # The coil-on-plug (COP) connectors each have two wires. Pin-1 is the +ve feed and Pin-2 the ground wire. On my car, all the ground wires were white-orange, compared to WN515 which said white-purple. # There are eight engine-loom wires to be joined to six connector pins. You'll need to double-up the ground wires on pins 2 and 5 (see the wiring guide in WN515 or on the link above). It doesn't matter which ground wires make up each pair. Here's how to do it: 1. Cut off the eight COP wires about 10cm from where they disappear into the engine loom, and strip off about 3mm of insulation from each stub (no more, otherwise you risk obstructing the pin-locating tab in the connector). 2. Slide a little yellow rubber seal over the end of each wire stub (or pair of wires for the ground wires), crimp the bared wire and then close up the seal grip. 3. Insert each pin into the connector in turn (see wiring guide), and (gently) pull through from the other side with a pair of long-nosed pliers. A click indicates that the pin is located correctly. 4. Push in the yellow plastic insert, ensuring that each pin protrudes equally, and connect up. 5. Secure the wiring with cable ties. Job done!

JV

ETA: I've now repaired the busted link above.

ETA-2 (20Jul23): Due to Photobucket's nasty and unfriendly money-grubbing policy re free photo storage, my account has been deactivated.  I've no intention whatever of paying them to reactivate my account, so if anyone would like the photos concerned, please send me a Private Message with your email address.

[Angus]

John

 

Excellent write-up.

 

Angus

 

 

[John Vine]

Thanks, Angus.

 

Following your email about crimping tools, I thought I ought to alert readers to the fact that I didn't use the "correct" crimping tool for these AMP Econoseal J-series connectors, mainly because I couldn't find one. The correct tool crimps the contact and the seal grip simultaneously into a "B" shape. The tool I used (also an AMP, in fact) didn't have the correct die shape so I folded the tabs firmly flat instead (probably the second best option). Don't use pliers to do this -- they're a definite no-no as they won't exert sufficient pressure. If anyone should manage to locate a source of the correct crimping tool, please tell me.

 

JV

[Rattie]

If Neil at Polevolt doesn't have it, you probably didn't need it...

Crimp Tool for Econoseal etc

 

Martyn

^_R300GRR

[John Vine]

You must be a mindreader, Martyn. I asked Pole Volt this morning for advice as they sell the connectors. Back came an email from Neil, about the same time as your post, recommending exactly the tool you mention (TT320). The only snag is that they won't have any stock for 7 days or so.

 

JV

[John Vine]

Crimp-tool update....

 

The folks that make (some of) CC's looms tell me they use a Pressmaster tool, obtainable from here. They suggest the crimp-tool frame (stock no. 492-9595) plus a suitable die set (492-9668 or 492-9674, depending on the wire size). These aren't cheap-o products though. The frame plus one die comes to around £65 plus VAT and P&P.

 

JV