AdamQ Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Would anybody happen to have details - what's included and prices - of the Caterham factory Duratec 360 and 420 engine packs/kits?I'd also be interested in the differences between the sports and standard suspension options.Any info would be much appreciated ...Thanks,Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Presumably, you're looking for something more than is available via CC's website?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted November 12, 2017 Area Representative Share Posted November 12, 2017 CC Parts can quote you a price for a complete power unit sans roller barrels which is extra.I was collecting a replacement windscreen sometime ago & while I was there Tony? took two calls enquiring about complete engine packages....they are not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamQ Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 Thank you John and Geoff - much appreciated.Yes, I was thinking a call to Tony was probably be the way forward - these questions always seem to crop up at the weekend though ...I was prepared for a fairly large figure - was just interested to know how large it was and what you got for it, e.g. whether or not you got a keyed crank with the 420, whether or not the ECU was programmable, things like that. And how it compared to the likes of the offerings from Raceline, Omex/Burton/Cosworth, Dunnell, Premier Power etc. acknowledging that if one had intentions of ever selling back to Caterham (which I wouldn't), that that is a factor.Thanks again.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwood Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Hi Adam,apologies if I've totally missed the point of your question but, assuming the kits you are referring to are as per what Caterham spec in their factory based cars then my own research into this suggests the 360 is effectively a crate 2.0 Duratec albeit mated to Caterhams own single (plastic) throttle body. Together with headers/exhaust that caterham use and an MBE ECU. This configuration produces 180hp.The 420 spec is basically the same except that the injectors are uprated and a different set of Cams is used. The ECU is either replaced or remapped, not entirely sure which, and then gets you to 210hp. You can find an 'upgrade' package on the caterham parts site to take a standard 360/R300 spec car to this level.There is then the option of adding roller barrel throttle bodies to the 420 spec. These are caterham branded but are, I believe, Titan items. These add another 10hp and some additional torque and replace the single plastic throttle body arrangement. Again the ECU is either swapped or remapped by caterham to support this config. Again there is a kit and price for this on the caterham parts site. This takes you to 220hp of thereabouts and then I guess your technically driving a 440 spec car although no such model officially exists in the standard caterham line up.i don't believe cranks are keyed by caterham for any of the aforementioned packages but I could be wrong. All the MBE Ecu's they supply on the factory cars are locked so I assume this is the same with the engine kits but can't be sure.The price to take a car currently at 360 spec level to 220hp in one hit is about £4500. It's £2100 for the 420 spec without the throttle bodies added.a dry sump kit which would be highly recommended if you plan to go on track with any of the above is currently £2700. The kit includes a caterham branded raceline dry sump, aluminium oil tank and associated pipe work.all of this assumes you already have a 360 spec car though and by the sounds of it you're after a price for the entire engine at one of these spec levels? If so, ignore the prices but the rest stands.regardsTom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just to add to Tom's post....AFAIK, the 420 spec also includes a lightened flywheel (P/N 58164) with ARP bolts, plus con-rod ARP bolts. The roller-barrel upgrade includes R500D injectors (39E156A) and sub-loom (39L073A), plus (optionally) uprated valve springs. The RB upgrade requires a remap from a MAP-based map to a TPS-based one.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamQ Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Hi Tom,You've not missed the point of my question at all but rather have hit it spot on - many thanks for the very comprehensive information - all very useful indeed and answers many if not all of the questions swimming around what I call my brain ...John, thanks for the additions - also very useful.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwood Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Hi Adam,Glad to hear it. Good extra info from John about the valve springs as well. As it happens I dropped my own car into Caterham in Crawley on Saturday which has the engine in effectively 360 trim. It's in to be upgraded in one fell swoop to the 220hp level. Once i've picked it up in a week or so's time I will report back and find out what, if any, changes have been made with regards to valve springs and ARP bolts and the like as I never did ask them whether they'd me changing those. I suspect the valve springs must be getting upgraded as part of the Cams being changed. Whether the conrod bolts will also be changed i'm not entirely sure.I've no idea what flywheel was put onto my SuperSport R originally but its possible its the lightweight one that they were adding to what was the R400 model at the time.RegardsTom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisGillard Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Hi,I had the 420 upgrade with roller barrels done by Caterham about 15 months ago. The car was originally a Roadsport Duratec 175.This is what was done to mine ... new cams, new valve springs, new injectors and the roller barrels. The original locked ecu was given a new map and is still locked When I collected the car I was a little disappointed. It was noisy, petrol smelly (never had that before) and kangarood which I was not used to ..... but it did go, partiularly at the top end. In the 15 months since it it was done I have spent more money to make it more pleasant.1. Remap by Track'N Road .... new ECU required. They eyeballed the roller barrel settings and adjusted the static openings. All this sorted out the petrol smell and the kangarooing - about £1K They gave me about 215bhp at 7500. I feel it has a little less power and torque in the up to 4000 area.2. RaceCo exhaust has sorted out the noise somewhat and is repackable which will help keep the noise down in the future. Needed a Cat Bypass pipe to go with the longer RaceCo exhaust. So now probably got to fit the old exhaust and cat for MOT. - about £600After this point I had a significantly quicker car at 5000+ but, a bit noisier , a little harsher, thirstier, car.Am I happy with it all, depends whether on the track or touring with the other half. Depends what your priorities are.My 2p.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwood Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Adam,just updating to say that I've now had the work done on the car. Very pleased with the results.i have the full breakdown of the parts used by caterham on my invoice. Happy to share with you if you'd like it?it backups up pretty much what John and I have mentioned though already. Uprated valve springs were used but there is no mention of upgraded con-rod bolts in my case.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNC Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 My 2p worth is I can't see a generic map from CC will give you the best out of your engine , as all engines breath differently ! I took mine to see the two Steves they first checked the CC map and found quite a few problems the ecu was firing and no fuel and vice versa at different rpm they were amazed I drove from Surrey to Essex without problems . Interesting some have stated their ecu were locked and need a new unlocked one ! Mine was locked but Steve knew how to unlock it and reprogrammed it no problem .To enhance the RBTB's I fitted a cat bypass pipe and a R500 can haha loads of noise and over run backfire bangs and don't make yourself jump at night when the flames are visible . Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNC Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Hi John , I was told by mic from CC all Duratec's come with a lightened flywheel's . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNC Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Another point to make when fitting RBTB's is the tendency to backfire on over run if you still have a cat it won't like it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwood Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Mine defo pops and bangs a lot on the overrun now. Quite agree on the Cat situation, decat pipe and probably a bigger exhaust can are next on the list as the car is now quite a lot louder.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamQ Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Tom,Many thanks for the update - much appreciated and it's good to have most or all of the information provided confirmed categorically.Very glad to hear you're pleased with the upgrade ...I expect you're already aware of it, but re. the exhaust, repacking with Acoustafil might be an initial option that's worth exploring - it's excellent stuff from a noise point of view in my experience.Thanks again,Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwood Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Hi Adam,Unfortunately with mine being the stock exhaust I'm not sure it's repackable unfortunately. I'm thinking a raceco might be the answer so I can do as you suggest.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamQ Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 Hi Tom,Aah, I didn't think of that ... However, it is a surmountable problem - see here:https://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/acoustafil-good-stuffwhere there's a description of what I did and a link to an original post on tackling the problem by DJ.It sounds like a major operation, but it's not too bad and was easier than I expected it to be when I actually knuckled down and did it.Hope it might help ...Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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