BruceW Posted December 1, 2002 Share Posted December 1, 2002 Some kind soul has bought me a Halfrauds battery charger/conditioner. I've read the threads about wiring it into a socket or switch in the dasboard so I could leave it connected without removing the bonnet every time but have hit a snag. The instructions state that the battery should be disconnected from the car before attaching the charger. Do they all say this? Is this surmountable? If not then no point in fitting the socket in the dash etc. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Den Posted December 1, 2002 Share Posted December 1, 2002 Bruce - I guess that is just to ensure that people don't stick a battery on charge and then close the bonnet - it will need to vent gasses when charging. My battery is mounted below the carbs on my crossflow, and I just take the bonnet off and then connect the conditioner. As long as there's unrestricted airflow around the battery, I think you'll you be OK. I periodically check mine, just to be safe... Den 😬 - Self portrait - still unable to remove the smile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdchalfont Posted December 1, 2002 Share Posted December 1, 2002 In addition to letting the battery breath during charging, there is another reason why battery chargers normally recommend disconnecting the battery first. A typical healthy car battery will maintain between 12 and 13 volts across its terminals, and with the engine running the electrical system of the car can quite easily be well over 13 volts. This is fine for all of the electrics/electronics on the car, as they are all rated to be able to handle 10-15% over-voltage. (from the standard 12V). But a battery charger will typically provide 15-16V when charging in order to feed energy into the battery. When you connect a charger to your car with the battery connected to the car, you are effectively connecting your immobiliser, ECU if you have one, and a few other bits to a 15-16V power source. This could easily destroy the (expensive!) electronics inside. Generally speaking, things will be fine... but you never know... which is why they always put the warnings on the manuals - to stop you sueing! Hope that helps... Cheers, Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted December 1, 2002 Share Posted December 1, 2002 I thought that battery charging for lead acid cells was done at constant voltage and certainly nowhere near 16v. But in any case if you are connecting a conditioner after a run to keep the battery tip top till the next run, it will be charged and the activity of the conditioner will be minimal. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted December 1, 2002 Share Posted December 1, 2002 A 7 bonnet on provides plenty of ventilation I think. I had a dash socket on my previous 7. Not on this one though. A batt charger should not be more than 14.5V. I always charge with the batt cut out cut out on the 7 though. Not so for the two tin tops we have. These and previous tin tops have not suffered any over the years. I regularly top up my cars esp during winter. The batts last much longer that way. /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted December 1, 2002 Share Posted December 1, 2002 It's a free country and you can do anything you like I suppose, but a battery gives off hydrogen gas when it is being charged - good idea not to let it accumulate (sorry, no pun intended) as certain airship passengers will testify! It's also a good idea to remove the cell caps when charging as well. A quick disconnect of the negative terminal is a good idea too. But, hey - it's up to you! I know I shouldn't do this, but ----- Battery Charging - Recommended Procedure. Bearing in mind that it is a good idea to keep potential sparks away from Hydrogen gas and vice versa. AND prevent acid spatter on treasured bodywork. 1. Remove battery from car - disconnect negative terminal first. 2. Place battery close to mains electrical outlet where it is unlikely to fall over and away from naked flame or source of sparks. 3. Attach battery charger connections to battery, but do not turn on charger yet. 4. Remove caps from cells - do not lose. (placed upside down beside hole is OK). 5. Ensure correct level of acid in each cell, top-up to recommended MAX level with distilled or de-ionised water ONLY. 6. Switch on battery charger. Reverse this procedure when finished. Acid will bubble gas while charging and when these bubbles burst will give-off small sprays of acid. So make sure there is nothing close to the battery that you don't want to give a rash to. The best way to test the charge state of a battery is with a hydrometer - tests the SG of the acid. These "leave attached" chargers might have clever electronics, but it is much better for a battery in a car not being driven regularly if it is discharged by applying a small load (tail light bulb) and then charged fully and left for a few weeks. Continuous small charging will eventually deposit the plates to the bottom of each cell, where it will eventually short out the cell. Please feel free to add anything I've forgotten - or shoot me down in flames. TFC Edited by - Tony C on 1 Dec 2002 22:06:43 😬 Edited by - Tony C on 1 Dec 2002 22:53:56 Edited by - Tony C on 1 Dec 2002 22:55:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarek Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 The conditioner I have suggests that you connect to the positive and an earth point if you leave it in the car. Sensible advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 so following this thread, i should remove the battery, remove the leads to the car, and then put on conditioner? i see conflicting opinions on what will happen to the rover imoboliser with a mems ecu. Steve Metalic Black SV-VHPD click here to see our pictures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 (reality mode on ) Fitting a "conditioner" will be FINE without disconecting the earth,cell caps etc (it only charges at 250-500mA !!no where near enough to produce enough gases to worry about, for that you would need around 10-15amps!! after all how many amps does the alternator charge at, without the cell caps loose?) The conditioner is SMART i.e. charges slowly monitoring the charge up to 14.5V then goes into hibernation mode, maintaining the charge! very clever. Don't worry, how many ecu's,car alarms..... have you heard of that "blown-up" ???? none i doubt, even if you have i would be very suprised if "that" was the cause! They are a "fit and forget" item, how many motorbikes have them?.....LOTS! *thumbup* Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 cheers for that excellent bit of logic martin *thumbup*. it's on the conditioner now as it's flat. i topped up the battery cells with de-ionized water first.... Steve Metalic Black SV-VHPD click here to see our pictures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puremalt Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Some of us won't remove the carbs first before charging the battery though 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Please note: the thread says recommended procedure for battery charging. As I also said, it's your car and it's a free country. Have a look here here and here No offence Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 at least the supplied links weren't to some EU directive about cow methane gasses relative to battery exhaust gasses and window cleaners on ladders.... 😬 Steve Metalic Black SV-VHPD click here to see our pictures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Steve, You'll be fine, good to use de-ironised water , but please god you haven't topped up too much (just covering the plates is fine, more and you start to cause trouble 🙆🏻) if you have the banner battery do the caps up, venting is carried out via the "vent tube" on the side of the battery Tony, No offence taken , as i see it we have two issues here! one for Chargers, one for conditioners 😳. If using a traditional "charger" then EVERYTHING you stated is CORRECT *thumbup*, However as we were speaking regarding "conditioners" then it is a TOTAL & UNECCESSARY overkill, because of the points i have made 😳 (mainly to the charging current, and control logic used ❗) I hope this clears this up Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Sounds good to me Martin 😬 Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 well i threaded the needle down the middle. i put D-I water in, left a tiny amount of looseness on the caps, and disconnected, as the battery was down to 9.6VDC. i've just come in from the garage, and it's fully charged/conditioned, and nothing seeped out the slightly opened vents. now it's time to BLAT like it's 1999...... Steve Metalic Black SV-VHPD click here to see our pictures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Nice one Steve 😬 Envy, envy Cheers TFC Waiting for my BRG SV kit 😬 Is there any other colour? (Sumo Version?) - Only another 10 weeks to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 *thumbup* 😬 😬 😬 😬 Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick VVC Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Bruce, Wish I'd read this thread a year ago! I'm just about to have to go and buy yet another new battery - the third in 4 years - as, despite regular use, the current one has died after the last couple of weeks of cold weather. It won't take any charge, even after 18 hours on a normal charger, although it does have enough charge left in it to energise the starter motor solenoid. I'd wrongly assumed that simply running the car regularly in the winter would keep the battery topped up - last time I started it was only 2 weeks ago and there was no problem then - in fact it started first time. Now I know I was wrong! The links that Tony provided told me why, plus the fact that I suspect the Rover immobiliser drains off a lot of power when the car is standing. Looks like I'm off the buy a new battery and a conditioner and will be taking the battery out of the car between uses. Cheers Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 my next door neighbor is a bike racer, has more than 1/2 dozen in his shed. works at the local raf base, and is an electrical engineer for fighters. he has a lot to say on the subject. all his bikes and racing cars he has hard wired a connector for the small conditioners to. he goes to his garage once a day and moves the conditioning charger from bike to bike to car. everything starts up first time, and he qualified that there is no reason to disconnect batteries. Steve Metalic Black SV-VHPD click here to see our pictures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 How do I say this best? Personal opinion is fine. I don't think anyone is trying to make anybody do anything they don't want to do. I personally dislike the "Nanny State" syndrome - let me make that clear. 😬 Because personal opinion and experience can differ so widely, "Recommended Procedures" for various 'activities' have been devised, by good intentioned, very knowledgable individuals, who are recognised experts in their respective fields. Nobody is saying you HAVE to disconnect a battery and remove it from a car or bike before charging it. If doing that somehow gives you a problem, then don't do it. It's OK, the battery charging police will not pay you a visit However, it is a good idea to not only electrically disconnect a battery while charging it, but remove it to a well ventilated area too. As Peter C says - you can't argue with Physics. FACT When a battery is being charged, chemical processes take place inside each cell which releases hydrogen gas. Hydrogen is explosive at certain concentrations. It doesn't matter what the charging rate is, this will always occur - no exceptions! If, for whatever reason there is a restiction in the breather hole in a cell, pressure will increase and COULD split the casing and drench your car/bike in sulphuric acid. Nick VVC has gained some knowledge he didn't have before by reading about facts presented by knowledgable publications - I have been very careful to not put forth my personal opinion, but I know what method I'll be using when it comes to looking after my battery. Cheers, TFC Waiting for my BRG SV kit 😬 Is there any other colour? (Sumo Version?) - Only another 10 weeks to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick VVC Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Speaking from my new position of now having a little knowledge (therefore making me a dangerous thing!) I'm not sure I can really see why it's a big deal simple to disconnect the battery for charging or conditioning - after all, it only takes 2 nuts/bolts to be removed. Or am I being too simple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Nick VVC, that rather depends on where the battery is located Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Disconnecting my battery would seem to upset my EEC. (Recent thread helped me, resetting EEC by stepping on accel. pedal 5 times). I had disconnected my battery, for charging. since you do not disconnect the battery when alternator charging, nor remove the caps, why do it when charging from...an electronically controlled charger/conditioner? (Everyone would agree, now, that wacking in lots and causing gassing is a different case). Getting batteries in and out runs the risk of damage, spillage etc. (I dropped one yesterday on the drive...it did not bounce) good luck, Roland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Roland...... *eek*you're right, sorry to hear that 🙆🏻 Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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