Any spark at all Anthony? Not just at the plugs but at the coil HT lead as well

Hi Andrew, bit of a possible update. With all 4 plugs out of the engine I can now see all of them firing and in the correct order. However, it seems none of our tests show up anything wrong.

Now then, when I checked the rotor was pointing at no 1 (compression stroke) I glanced at it and thought yes that looks (about!) right, given if it's in about the right place it must be right because I have never moved the distributor body or loosened it.

And therein lies the rub. I have never moved the body, but it seems possible that the jolt it was given when sheering off the plastic nodule inside the rotor arm (which is what started all this - and took me ages to find), MAY have moved the distributor body itself by ever so little enough to put the timing enough out as to fail to start. So maybe it needs moving back to where it should be.

I have even gone as far as putting the no 1 lead (plus the others) on each of all 4 of the dizzy head contacts. Nada.

Everyone has had me doing and redoing every test there must be. Carbs too. 

We have spark, we have fuel, and no start, so I guess it must be timing. I haven't touched the timing - but maybe the process of the damage being caused has indeed interfered with it. 

So I will be marking (probably tippex) the dizzy cap with exactly where the no 1 contact is, then transferring that mark to the dizzy body and comparing that exactly with where the rotor is pointing at No1 TDC Compression stroke (as identified by having plugs 2,3,4, removed and feeling the compression on No1, as well as seeing the timing marks on the crank pulley and spotting TDC with a suitable screwdriver rising on the piston after removing the no 1 plug.

Sorry I missed your question, but happily you now have a better update that it would have been then.

Given the rotor "blade" is quite long and the mark I make will be a dot, I am wondering whether to line up the start, middle or end of the rotor.

rgds Anthony

Yes, agree with your diagnosis that it must be timing out.  I presume there are instructions with the Pertronix how to set/check the static timing. Regarding the rotor arm it will move anticlockwise in relation to the distributer body when the mechanical advance kicks in

well, first off I will check and adjust the dizzy body back to where it should be if as I/we suspect it has moved. Not sure I have seen instructions for static timing on the Pertronix, which if the car starts I suppose I will re fit, having substituted another new one as a control test. I have a strobe light, but it's donkeys years since I used one and while I can see the marks on the crank pulley I can't see where to match them.. don't suppose you have a pic?

I have been absolutely determined NOT to touch the timing but it's looking like I have no choice because therein lies the trouble.

Mine is a X-flow and the timing marks are as fig 1A on page 37 of the Haynes Mexico and RS manual

Guess what? It's so close I need to establish the static timing. Hve to see if I can find instructions. I seem to recall it involves a meter and resistance, unlike the good old light bulb we used to use.

Quote

Mine is a X-flow and the timing marks are as fig 1A on page 37 of the Haynes Mexico and RS manual

thanks - looking

took these pics a few minutes ago, wondering fi we can see the mark on the engine block:

looks like page 52 Fig 1B-3 although no crank to block marks

Anthony, a while ago you posted a pic of some notes you received with the car (I haven't manged to find it again yet).  I guess one of the diagrams relates to those notches on the crank pulley.  As you say what they are meant to line up with is the next problem to solve

7 hours ago, anthonym said:

So I will be marking (probably tippex) the dizzy cap with exactly where the no 1 contact is, then transferring that mark to the dizzy body and comparing that exactly with where the rotor is pointing at No1 TDC Compression stroke 

If you have an old distributer cap you can cut the top off it above the level of the pegs and fit it, you can then see the position of the rotor arm wrt the pegs

guess what? in the above process I discovered there is a small nick in the metal lip of the dizzy right where no 1 points to it. Didn't notice until working it out manually. It looks professionally done.

Hi Anthony - to set the ignition timing on a BDR you use the marks on the back of the cam pulley and the small raised line on the cam cover. The pulley is marked at TDC, 10 degrees, and 20 Degrees. 

From the manual

any chance that pic in better focus for the crank part? I have looked and cannot see the cam sprocket two marks, nor any small raised line on the cam cover

The picture above shows the cross flow on top, and the BDR below. As far as I know, all BDRs should have the pulley markings - have you got any pics of that area?

The current battle is that the cam sprocket marks do not line up at no 1 compression TDC, they are two teeth out.

as shown here - the screwdriver top is at TDC and the rotor is pointing at no 1

Crossflow:

BDR:

Happy to do some scans of these if they're not clear, but won't be until this evening at the earliest 

it's ok I have the same images here from the Haynes manual. However, I can find only one mark on the exhaust cam on the back and none on the front and none on the cam cover. I can see marks on the crank pulley as you can see, but as yet nothing to which to line them up. I plan to use a snake cam to have a deeper look as it is not possible to view head on which is really what is needed. 

I do have marks on both cam sprockets that SHOULD line up at TDC but they do not, being two kinks out. 

We all seem to have the same information, but I am failing to match it to my engine - a direct purchase from Cosworth and he told me it was to his own desired spec, without telling me what that was.

If you can establish EXACT top dead centre then presumably you can create a mark for the crank pulley to line up with.  The notches on the pulley obviously relate to the sketch below that you posted earlier.

Establishing exact tdc will be the tricky bit as there will be a range of crank rotation near tdc where it is very difficult to detect any piston movement

After a long day yesterday in consultations I have established my cam belt is two ridges out and the cams are advanced by that. I gather a manner in which this can happen is that for reason unknown the pressure on the cam belt is reversed, so the tensioner is untensioned and the then loose belt can skip two ridges on the crank pulley.

So despite it appearing the problem arose at the cam pulley alignment, the cause of this and the reason it is exactly the same for both cams, is it is the crank pulley that has been adjusted by two ridges. 

Now I mention it I have thought the cam belt does seem very tight and not the required 3/4" flex between exhaust pulley and tensioner (or next pulley down whatever that one is). 

So the plan is to put cam pulleys in alignment (which they think is TDC), lock them (cam lock required), release tensioner, (probably move belt two ridges on the crank pulley) by setting it to TDC by the shortest route, re-tension, unlock cams; rotate 720 degrees to check both cams and crank go to TDC correctly. 

I will replace the cam belt when I get one whether today or another day. It has only done a few miles, but who knows what forces it has been subject to in this issue.

Unrelated: going to replace the rear cam seals as well.

THEN it's back to how to do this 6 degrees BTDC.